Enabling both iCloud and Dropbox as sync services: does it make sense ? Why ?

face

I use as my primary sync service Dropbox.

I've seen that is possible to enable also iCloud in PI 4.

Which benefits will give enabling both ?

jhollington

Right now unless you have more than one iOS device that you're regularly using 1Password on, there's probably no advantage at all -- at least until 1Password 4 for Mac comes out with iCloud support.



However, if you are using multiple devices, the main advantage I can see right now to enabling iCloud in addition to Dropbox is that iCloud provides a form of background sync between multiple iOS devices; because the iCloud data is synced in the background, you don't need to open 1Password and sync to the cloud over a data connection -- the local repository gets updated in the background as soon as changes are pushed out, and then 1Password simply syncs with the local data store. This means that your 1Password data is basically up to date within a couple of seconds after opening 1Password regardless of whether you have a data connection at that time or not.



iCloud sync also provides much faster initial setup as 1Password simply finds and uses the iCloud data that's already there rather than requiring you to authenticate to your Dropbox account.



You could even enable iCloud+Dropbox sync on one of your iOS devices and iCloud only on the others. This would obviously only be a good idea if you used 1Password on iOS as a primary device, as that device would become a sort of "bridge" between Dropbox and iCloud for your data.

face

Great observation jhollington about the iCloud sync process in background: we're sure about that ?

I see that at every startup iCloud sync ...



Enabling both Dropbox + iCloud how 1P manage the 2 sync ?

It would be more secure (also for backup) leave both enabled ?

jhollington

The iCloud sync you're seeing is simply the data being synced between two local directories on the device -- the iCloud repository and the internal 1Password data format.



This is actually the way iCloud Documents and Data works for everything -- iCloud pushes any data down to each iOS device, and in fact does so regardless of whether a corresponding app is installed or not. In fact, you could enable iCloud sync on your iPhone for existing 1Password data, and then install 1Password on your iPad and turn on Airplane Mode before running it for the first time. It will find your iCloud data on your iPad (since that's already been synced down by iOS) and use that to setup your new 1Password install, all without any network connection whatsoever.



You can view the iCloud data stored on a given iOS device by going into Settings->iCloud->Storage & Backup and selecting the "Manage Storage" option.



1Password reconciles changes across all of the three sync sources (you can also enable iTunes File Sharing) to merge changes and avoid duplicatingi data, so there shouldn't be any issue with having them all on. I'm currently using both Dropbox + iCloud on all of my iOS devices without any problems. Obviously this is also more secure for backup purposes to have them both on since more backups are always a good thing <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

thightower

I just wanted to say thanks for the discussion it helped me understand more.



Especially the icloud syncing. Ill possibly have to revisit the idea.

MikeT

@jhollington is pretty much accurate in what he just said.



I do want to clear up something, having all of the sync options doesn't make it more secure, just more redundant, so you have more chances of restoring your data.



Remember that the more places that your data file can be found also increases the risk of it being left behind for other people to find later if you aren't careful with your sync accounts.

face

But data are saved in encrypted format, also using iCloud, isn't it ?

MikeT

Hi face,



Yes, we encrypt your data before it even touches the disk, which is way before any sync occurs. You can certainly use all three sync options, we recommend you to do that for redundant backups.



I'm just pointing out that factually and technically, it doesn't make it more secure (it's the same security protection) to have the data file on multiple places because once somebody finds the data file, they can try to guess the master password with dozens of computers and be at it for hundreds of years before they can find it.



If you have three safety boxes, all exactly the same including the keys to unlock it, that means one person each box can try their luck on it as opposed to one box with multiple people in the waiting line in front of it.



Granted, the same issue occurs if you only use Dropbox and not the rest. If somebody breaks into your Dropbox account, they can just copy the file and multiple people can try their luck on it.



The point basically is this, security is better if you can protect against both ends, since you can't protect what happens to iCloud, Dropbox and other places, the best thing is to control how they can get to your data file and that is to limit the number of areas your file is on.



The key thing is decide which is more important; redundancy to make sure your data is restorable if something happens to it in one place or isolation, in this case, stick with iTunes File Sharing as it is restricted to your computers only. So, you decide what you want to do and we're flexible with your options.

face

Mike, thanks, as usual, for taking time to answer our multiple questions with competence and clarity. I really appreciate it.

MikeT

You're welcome, I'm glad to hear they're helpful for you guys.

Penelope Pitstop

Really useful thread this.



Syncing with both Dropbox and iCloud presumably facilitates sync with Windows version of 1PW and use of 1Password Anywhere whilst simultaneously enjoying the benefit of ICloud push on the Apple versions of the product?

b3studios

Can you sync to 1 dropbox account and 2 iCloud accounts?

My situation and why I ask:



My wife and I each have a laptop, an iPhone, and an iPad. We also have two other shared desktop computers. We share 1Password data and currently sync everything using a shared dropbox account.



On our iOS devices and Macs, we have separate iCloud accounts. Using the new version of 1Password can we sync using dropbox and also have my devices sync to my iCloud while her devices sync to her iCloud? If this doesn't work then we'll just stick to using dropbox, but I would like the benefits that iCloud syncing brings.

Thanks.

jhollington

Like anything else on your device that uses iCloud Documents and Data, 1Password will sync to whichever is configured as the primary account under your iCloud settings. This means you cannot sync to two different iCloud accounts on a [i]single[/i] device, but at the same time if you were syncing data via a Dropbox share and then syncing up to each of your local iCloud accounts this is certainly theoretically possible from an iOS point of view.



I'll leave it to the 1Password folks to chime in on how well this would be supported by 1Password in terms of data integrity and reconciliation, but from what I understand of how 1Password works, I don't think this would be a problem any more than syncing to a single set of iCloud and Dropbox accounts.



Obviously using two iCloud accounts will only be an advantage if you're [i]each[/i] using multiple iOS devices -- you'd still need Dropbox to get the data across between devices that use different iCloud accounts.

khad

As often is the case, jhollington is correct. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



Each instance of 1Password 4 for iOS can sync to one Dropbox account and one iCloud account, but they don't have to be unique accounts. You can sync multiple devices to a shared Dropbox account and each sync with your own individual iCloud accounts.