Production 4.0.2 from Beta.

doetraar

Hi,



Here in Oz, I was just able to hand you my money and buy the production/release version of 4.0 (4.0.2 apparently) - I haven't run it yet, are there any tips/tricks/hints/OMG DON'T DO THATs that I should know if I have been doing the beta testing as well? Don't want to break anything...



Thanks!

MikeT

Hi,



Thanks for buying the app. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



You should be okay with running both stable and betas at the same time, they won't interact with each other and have their own data copy.



The 4.0.2 stable is based on b42 build, in case you guys are wondering.

doetraar

Thanks Mike. And just like that, 1Password Pro 3.x is nuked from my iDevices and 4 is given its place of honour. Beta sticking around to continue efforts to help!

golfsierra

Hi folks,



in my opinion the 4.0.2 is crap! sorry to say that!

you charge money for a lousy BETA (b42) with many bugs and unsolved problems. I bought v4 today because it is "cheap" now and I hope that it will WORK as soon as possible. Until that point I will continue with v3.

I also hoped that the Mac version for 4 is soon to be released (because of iCloud Sync) ... doesn't look so ...



I do not trust Dropbox for syncing (privacy concerns) therefore I have no choice with v4 than always copy the latest datafile via iTunes to my iOS device (2-way-sync in that case not possible). Another way is to sync WLAN with v3 and then transferring the data to v4 ... but then I lose the attachments (because v3 does not support them)



Why do you release a product which is far from final? For example the secure notes are still not fixed until now ... you said 4.0.2. is based on b42 ... well, still b46 is not much better ...

I hope that not too much "new" 1 Password user will not be pissed because of a half baked product they have to pay for ...



I hope you keep on working on v4 until it is "really working" ... until now I will delete v4 from my devices and keep looking on the betas ...



greez

Gert

Manaburner

Hi Gert,



[quote name='golfsierra' timestamp='1355400348' post='64988']

in my opinion the 4.0.2 is crap! sorry to say that!

you charge money for a lousy BETA (b42) with many bugs and unsolved problems

[/quote]



Could you elaborate on this a little bit more? What bugs are you having problems with?



[quote]

I bought v4 today because it is "cheap" now and I hope that it will WORK as soon as possible.

[/quote]



It works perfectly fine here. Didn't have any problems with it

golfsierra

> Could you elaborate on this a little bit more? What bugs are you having problems with?



well, there are many annoying things:

- iPad opens in "all objects", iPhone in "favorites"

- Search field is still very "hidden" ... you have to go to categories, then all objects

- on iPad there is still a big difference if you use it portrait or landscape (acting very different)

- secure notes can't be deleted the way other entries can (have you ever tried to delete a secure note on iPad in Portrait mode?)

- still having problems with attachments in some categories

- screen update problems after deleting or adding an entry

- duckduckgo as STANDARD search engine (was a "test" in the beta program and now is the FINAL search engine?)

- no "SPACE" possible in the search field of the browser



and so on ...

Manaburner

I understand that you find these problems annoying. Some of those are AFAIK already on the list to be fixed e.g. replace the search engine with Google again. Some of those I didn't even realize they exist <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';-)' />



But saying the software was "crap" and "far from final" seems a little harsh and is IMHO not true. AgileBits did a great job on this and 96% of the app are working just fine.



There are some problems, that's right, but I have trust in AgileBits to fix them. I mean, it's not like the app isn't working at all.



As a developer you have to do a code freeze and make one version final. This was the case for the b42. It may not be perfect version in the opinion of some. I guess AgileBits picked this version as it didn't contain any critical bugs. And none of the things you listed seem like a critical bug to me, just annoying.



Software isn't perfect

*Blacklight

[quote name='Manaburner' timestamp='1355406884' post='65000']As a developer you have to do a code freeze and make one version final. This was the case for the b42. It may not be perfect version in the opinion of some. I guess AgileBits picked this version as it didn't contain any critical bugs. And none of the things you listed seem like a critical bug to me, just annoying.

[/quote]



I agree with the first point, but not necessarily with the last. Annoying bugs actually should be fixed in a release candidate. To be honest, as a beta tester I was a little surprised too that the final version is in the App Store all of a sudden. That said, from my experience the beta is pretty smooth, except for some (iPad) GUI and design errors. So I don't blame AgileBits for having a "before christmas" deadline, those kind of things can be crucial in business decisions. Version 4 is FAR from crap, really, let's stay reasonable here.



And of course, I will buy it, since it's my password manager of choice. We all know it's pricey (even with a huge discount), but developing an app with features like parallel syncing with two services, and crucial security issues like proper encryption to be taken care of, I'm fine with it. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

jhollington

[quote name='*Blacklight' timestamp='1355411563' post='65009']...developing an app with features like parallel syncing with two services, and crucial security issues like proper encryption to be taken care of, I'm fine with it.[/quote]



Exactly this point. I think it's too easy to forget how much is actually going on under the hood with 1Password, and when you actually step back and think about the syncing and encryption aspects, the app is both brilliant and remarkably solid. Ironically, it is often the apps that are the most sophisticated under the hood that get knocked for not having enough user-facing features, yet when it really comes down to it, they're the ones that actually [i]work[/i]. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



1Password manages to do a pretty good job of both, but I can forgive a few rough edges on the trim and upholstery for an app that has such an incredibly solid and well-performing engine. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

roustem

Thank you for the feedback, everyone!



1Password 4 was in development for over a year. We tried to hold off releasing it as much as we could. It is not perfect and there is still work to do (after working on 1Password for over 6 years I am starting to ask myself if it is ever going to be perfect).



However, in the current state it is so much better than 1Password 3 and we felt that it is better if we release it now.

roustem

[quote name='golfsierra' timestamp='1355404082' post='64994']

- duckduckgo as STANDARD search engine (was a "test" in the beta program and now is the FINAL search engine?)

[/quote]



You must be confusing it with b45. It is not in the official release.

Penelope Pitstop

"crap" is very harsh IMO.



It's quite solid on iPhone in my experience but on iPad the display issues will cause some users to question the reliability of the product — they represent more than simply a lack of polish IMO. Hopefully these issues are minor ones that can be resolved soon.



I can see how removal of the local WiFi sync feature will be a problem for anyone who mistrusts cloud services. Has the reasoning behind the decision to do that been discussed here?

jhollington

[quote name='Penelope Pitstop' timestamp='1355416975' post='65046']I can see how removal of the local WiFi sync feature will be a problem for anyone who mistrusts cloud services. Has the reasoning behind the decision to do that been discussed here?[/quote]

It was brought up over here, with the theory that iTunes File Sharing is a suitable replacement: http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/11361-will-the-classic-backup-return/



While this doesn't affect me as I've never used Wi-Fi sync, I'm not sure I really agree, to be honest, since iTunes Wi-Fi Sync is still a manual process, and thereby a nuisance for those who use 1Password between desktop and iOS device on a regular basis. Who knows, maybe 1Password v4 on the Mac will automate this somehow, but right now it's a huge pain compared to the old way.



Then again, I think people who mistrust cloud services need a better understanding of both how secure the 1Password data file actually is and the fact that your data remains local and is only [i]synced[/i] via the cloud -- too many seem to think they're [i]accessing[/i] data from the cloud, and therefore assume that they're at risk of losing everything in Dropbox or iCloud go down on them. I saw similar frightened concerns with the recent BusyCal update that removed local iCal / Sync Services support in favour of iCloud and Google Calendar.

Penelope Pitstop

Thanks JH.



Manually managing the file via iTunes file sharing is a kludge compared to syncing on an item level.



Personally I share your view on cloud security with respect to 1PW keychain data but I do understand the viewpoint of those that do not.



I don't think people should be forced into using cloud services for syncing if they don't want to. I'm puzzled why the code for a perfectly reliable feature was axed.

jhollington

Well, since the data file format has changed in 1Password 4, it probably wasn't as simple as "dropping in" the existing code -- I imagine some updating was required, so perhaps the decision may have been made to simply drop it rather than trying to maintain it.



Further, Apple is certainly pushing developers more and more toward using iCloud. While I don't think it's a [i]requirement[/i], it's certainly the way the wind is blowing in general.



That said, if 1Password v4 for Mac/Windows can integrate this seamlessly into the iTunes sync experience, that's going to be a much better implementation of the feature than the older-style Wi-Fi sync that required the user to open the app on both sides. If somebody doesn't use cloud services, chances are they're still also syncing with iTunes on a regular basis, so this avoids one additional semi-manual sync step.

face

I simply love 1P 4.

Go ahead ! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/emoticon-0117-talking.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='(talk)' />

golfsierra

Hi folks,



as I am NOT a native speaker maybe the word "crap" was the wrong to explain my feelings ... sorry for that

I really like v4 but I think many of the bugs should have been solved first before going to public ...



greez

Gert

golfsierra

[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1355412842' post='65018']

You must be confusing it with b45. It is not in the official release.

[/quote]



you are right ... I looked at b46 when checking ... sorry

*Blacklight

If I look at the reviews in the German app store, something still seems to be not right (many 1-star reviews). Besides from complaints about a (even discounted) high price and having to buy it again, people are furious about the missing WLAN sync, which they didn't know. Also, Dropbox sync and initial setup seems to be not working for some. I have to admit, I tested this at the beginning when the import didn't work and reported it, but didn't test it again afterwards. Did you guys fix it? Anyway, I'm sure it'll be fixed, but there's probably a need of communication about the WLAN-sync.

Penelope Pitstop

Khad [url="http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/11455-wi-fi-syncing/page__view__findpost__p__65209"]just explained the decision to drop WiFi sync[/url]. Interesting. I didn't know WiFi sync was unreliable.

jhollington

I never had any serious problems with it, but then again I'm an IT geek by nature (I wouldn't need 1Password support to tell me to reboot my router if things weren't working). However, I can easily see how somebody with less of a comfort with networking technology could find it extremely frustrating. It was one of those things that when it worked, it worked quite well, but it didn't always work.

Penelope Pitstop

I don't recall it being unreliable either but my memory is a little sketchy now. Once I had convinced myself that Dropbox was safe, I moved to that and haven't looked back since.

jhollington

It had its moments, and actually got somewhat worse when they tried to make it a more invisible, background process, since it frequently didn't fire off automatically, leaving one scratching their head as to why things were out of sync.



Personally, I just found the whole process to be annoying. Having to make sure that 1Password was running on my Mac, unlocked, and then having to start it up manually on my iOS device and either wait for or initiate a sync. Back in the early days of the App Store that was about the only way to do things, and I remember having to go through the same process for a half-dozen apps, one at a time, to sync each one via Wi-Fi with my Mac.



To be honest, people who rely on Wi-Fi sync in 1Password today and are willing to deal with that mess either [i]really[/i] hate the cloud or haven't experienced how brilliantly simple and seamless Dropbox/iCloud sync is by comparison ([i]especially[/i] iCloud sync now -- can't wait for that to arrive on the Mac side).

kkirsche

I think many of us are overthinking the problems. Yes, there are translation issues, a few oddities (like it still feels slow as anything to load after unlocking) but hey, it's a large step up from 1p3 so I'll say I'm happy, but want it better

MikeT

Hi guys,



Remember that often the first few releases of any apps are going to have some issues but the key thing is that often the first release might not end up the same over time as the devs continue to learn from their customers on what works better and then release updates to improve their apps.



If you compare 1Password 3.8.20 to 1Password 3.0.0 with two-three years of development and hundred of free updates, you can see a huge difference and major improvements in all areas. You can expect the same for the rest of our apps, we will making many improvements with free updates to 1Password 4.



Even now, we've just started working on 1Password 4.1 for iOS with the search bar in Portrait Mode, fixed many bug fixes and are reconsidering what we can do with supporting a local direct sync with the lack of the Wi-Fi sync. That's just this month alone, imagine what the next 6 months can bring with your help.