Agilekeychain in Dropbox

tuni12

Need clarification - I think I am missing the concept(s) here:



This is the scenario:



I have 1PW 3.9 from the App Store on my iMac (Lion OS)

I have 1PW 3.??? on my iPhone and

I have bought and also installed 1PW 4.03 on my iPhone



I use Dropbox as well as the backup/sync option.



*the Master Password for 1 PW on my iMac AND the 1PW 4.03 on my iPhone is the same password

*the Master Password for 1 PW (previous version 3.?) on my iPhone is different from the other two.



When I go to DropBox I see only ONE Agilebits keychain.....does that mean all 3 (which are syncd) and the data IS merged, are all backed up in that SAME Agikeychain even though the Master Password (for iPhone 1 PW previous version 3.? ?)is different?



I don't know if its possible to view the data in the Agilebits keychain on Dropbox. If it is possible to view the data, I haven't figured that out yet. However, my thoughts are if there are differing passwords then there should be additional keychains, each one tied to a specific password. Does that make any sense or am I hopelessly confused????? I know you guys are busy however, could use a simple (very simple) explanation....



many thanks, as always

khad

Sorry for any confusion, tuni12. What actually goes on under the hood is a bit more complicated than what you see on the surface. This isn't exactly how it works, but hopefully it will give you a pretty good idea.



1Password 3 for iOS has a separately encrypted database so this allows it to sync with your data file in Dropbox and have its own master password. The downside to this is that, while incredibly secure, the master password for your data file in Dropbox needs to be stored safely on the device in order to sync automatically. Again, while this is very secure, not storing it at all is even more secure. That is why we moved away from this in 1Password 4.



1Password 4 for iOS does away with this and stores a copy of your actual data file on the device instead of its own encrypted copy. Thus the password will necessarily be the same in 1Password 4 for iOS, all desktop versions of 1Password, and [url="http://help.agile.ws/1Password3/1passwordanywhere.html"]1PasswordAnywhere[/url] (the web interface I believe you were hinting at). They are all authenticated in the same way.



I hope that helps. Please let me know if have any further questions or concerns.

pbGuy

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1356063728' post='66117']

1Password 3 for iOS has a separately encrypted database so this allows it to sync with your data file in Dropbox and have its own master password. The downside to this is that, while incredibly secure, the master password for your data file in Dropbox needs to be stored safely on the device in order to sync automatically. Again, while this is very secure, not storing it at all is even more secure. That is why we moved away from this in 1Password 4.



1Password 4 for iOS does away with this and stores a copy of your actual data file on the device instead of its own encrypted copy. Thus the password will necessarily be the same in 1Password 4 for iOS, all desktop versions of 1Password... ...They are all authenticated in the same way.

[/quote]



I'm unclear reading your reply, to tuni12, where you seem to be saying 1PW4 stores a "data file" on the mobile device. Is this "data file" the Master Password?



...If I have interpreted correctly, is the 1PW4 keychain, stored on Dropbox, storing the just principal, password (& other) data within the 1PW keychain? ...And, since that keychain is stored without the Master Password incorporated into that keychain ("data file") on Dropbox and if a hacker actually was able to copy that file, they could not open it since the Master Password is "residing" on the syncing mobile device? (If I'm assessing this "architecture" correctly, then, the hacker would also need to have my mobile device as well as know my Master Password. Correct?)



A follow-up question about the respective, 1PW3 & 1PW4 keychains I currently have stored on Dropbox... I upgraded to 1PW4 from iPhone/iPad 3.7.2. I now have 2 keychains within my 1PW folder on Dropbox. One keychain contains a 9-digit number in the keychain name. The other keychain does not contain a number in the name. Which keychain is for 1PW4? ...And, since the respective keychains are still syncing with my 1PW3 MAS, is 1PW3 MAS syncing with both keychains?

( I still have iPhone/iPad 3.7.2 in use, currently - keeping them in sync with my 1PW3 MAS - on both my iPhone & iPad. And, I am about to delete iPhone/iPad 3.7.2 from my mobile devices - unless I should wait for 1PW4 MAS - and I want to delete the correct keychain once I discontinue use of all 1PW3 apps - both on my mobile devices as well as my desktop Mac. )

khad

In 1Password 4 for iOS, your master password is stored only in your brain.



This is the same as 1Password for Mac and Windows.





When you enter your master password, 1Password attempts to decrypt the encryption key which is 1024 bytes of random data generated when the data file was created. If the master password is correct, then the key is provide. Otherwise, nothing is returned.



There should only be one data file in your Dropbox folder. All versions sync with a single data file.



What is the path listed in 1Password for Mac? You can find it on the General pane in 1Password for Mac's preferences. In this example, my own data file is located here:



Users > khad > Dropbox > 1Password > 1Password.agilekeychain



[img]http://cdn.agilebits.com/k/img/General-20121221-163238.png[/img]

pbGuy

I can't believe I had such a brain freeze about the Master Password being mental only since I've been using 1PW for years. Anyway, thanks for the gentle reminder.



My Dropbox keychain path is as you've shown, and there is a file "1Password.agilekeychain" in the folder. So, that part is correct.



Since I've got a an extra keychain file, in my Dropbox folder, with some digits in the name (i.e. - 1Password-3xxxxxxxx.agilekeychain), I assume I can safely delete it from the folder. ...I'll look for your confirmation before I do so.



Thanks for your help and clarification.

khad

I wouldn't delete it — just in case — but you can go ahead and archive that other file. It would have been created if you already had a data file in Dropbox but declined to use it when 1Password prompted you (at some point in time) then later enabled Dropbox syncing of your "local" (i.e. non-Dropbox) data file. Since there can't be two active data files in Dropbox at once the other was "set aside" like that.



You can check the "last modified" date on it to see how long you've been going without it. It sounds like things have been sailing smoothly since that time, but archiving something like an old data file is always better than deleting it. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

pbGuy

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1356142382' post='66181']

I wouldn't delete it... ...You can check the "last modified" date on it...

[/quote]



When I'd previuosly looked at the Modified Dates and since I was unsure about what this extra keychain file was doing, I didn't pay close attention. (I don't often look inside the 1PW folder in Drobox.)



But now that you've clarified things, it's obvious the file with the numbers in it, is the improper one. ...And more precisely confirmed by the Modified Date - last July, as well as the file size - about 500K.



Whereas, the normal - proper - keychain file is over 11 MB (I only have about 100+ Logins, in addition to my other Categories data - so, not a huge keychain file), as well as having been modified yesterday (since I'd changed several Logins yesterday).



I've now removed the improper file from the 1PW folder in Dropbox and tested all my 1PW apps (on desktop & mobile devices) that are syncing with the Dropbox keychain file. All apps are running smoothly.



Thanks again, and I'm looking forward to getting the new, 1PW4 MAS.

khad

I'm happy to have that sorted out. Thanks for your kind words of encouragement! We're excited to get 1Password 4 for Mac on your machine. Hopefully it won't be too long. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

tuni12

Whew, glad there should be only ONE agilekeychain in my DB - that's what I have so guess its o.k. - was getting really confused since I thought there hsould be 2/3 since I really have 3 "1 PW) apps.



many thanks for the explanations which I'm still working on getting my head around..... <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

khad

As long as it's working…that's the important thing. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

pbGuy

One follow-up I should have previously inquired about -



In my main Dropbox, I have a small, 1PW file (sitting outside the 1PW Folder) labelled: .ws.agile.1Password.settings



If I select that file, while in the Dropbox (iOS) app, I see only the following text -> 1Password/1Password.agilekeychain



Is this a key file that must remain?

thightower

Hey pbGuy



Its a pointer to the data file and where it resides in Dropbox.



Its needed if you are running any devices that do not support 1Password 4 iOS. If however all your devices are running 1Password 4 then you can remove it. As 1Password 4 defaults to the standard keychain location Dropbox > 1Password > 1Password.agilekeychain



I believe until the desktop app is updated it may get recreated. It can simply be ignored if that happens.

pbGuy

Thanks all, for the respective replies regarding the various 1PW files.



If I may suggest for future app updates, it would be really helpful, within Release Notes, to have Agile provide these details.



Over the years, I have seen where developers don't "clean up" old files, in the update install, that an update no longer uses. As user, it's difficult to know; and the Notes could save you all time in having to answer these questions.



I'm looking forward to 1PW 4 MAS. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/emoticon-0128-hi.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='(hi)' />

khad

We'll see if we can communicate this more clearly in the future. I don't think the release notes are the place since that is for [i]changes[/i] and this has been the case since Dropbox syncing was first implemented in 1Password, but I'll see where we can fit this in the documentation.



One thing to keep in mind is that, as with all files that begin with a period, the `.ws.agile.1Password.settings` file is hidden by default in UNIX-based operating systems like OS X. So unless you have modified some hidden settings to reveal hidden files in Finder you shouldn't see it. Sadly, the Dropbox website and app do not honor this which is why you asked about it and why we should probably document it somewhere. FWIW, the first hit in a Google search for `.ws.agile.1Password.settings` is actually a previous forum thread in which thightower explains it, though. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />