Windows version won't open keychain; works fine in iOS

grahampcharles

1Password for Windows won't open my database (from Dropbox); it says my master password is wrong. But my iPhone and iPad both open the database with no troubles. I've even re-set the master password (from the iPhone) and the Windows version still won't open it.



Any advice?



Tried on Win8, 64 bit and Win7, 32 bit.



Thanks,



g.

khad

Your master password does not have to be the same between 1Password for Mac/Windows and your 1Password iOS app(s). Many users like to have a less-complicated one for 1Password iOS apps because of the interaction using the much smaller virtual keyboard. Because they do not have to be the same, they are never synced from one device/platform to another.



For your privacy and security, your master password is known only by you. We cannot reset it for you and you cannot change it without entering the old one. There is also no "back door" to access your data without the master password. If there were, that would be a security hole that criminals could exploit to steal your information.



If you think you know what the password is, but it is not being accepted, please see the tips in this guide:



[url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password_Windows/forgot-mp.html"]http://help.agilebit.../forgot-mp.html[/url]



Please try each tip, for we have found them to be the most common causes of this problem. If you cannot remember the password, you will need to restore from a backup or start over. Both of these steps are documented in the guide.



If you've really never stored anything in your 1Password data file then starting over is really easy -- but you'll want to make sure and provide a good "password hint" so you don't forget the master password again.



Fortunately, if you have all your data on your iOS devices all of it will sync *into* a new data folder that you create in 1Password for Windows, so you likely won't miss a beat.

grahampcharles

Um.. really? It's the same database, synched via Dropbox -- why wouldn't it have the same password? And if not the same password, then what password is it using? Unless I missed something, I didn't create a new password -- I just installed 1Password on my new desktop machine and opened the Dropbox-based database that I'd already created on my iOS devices and have been using for quite a while.



The less-complicated iOS accommodation is the Unlock Code, of course.



g.

grahampcharles

Wow, this is really frustrating. Now here's what happens on my iOS device:



1. Settings / Sync / Dropbox (shows "On")

2. Press "Sync Now"

3. Enter Master Password and "Remember" and press "Sync Now"



...and I'm dumped back into the "Dropbox Sync" screen with the status text "Automatic Sync disabled."



And no sync occurs, nor is my password remembered.



Hm. Can you advise? Something's hinky about this workflow.

khad

My apologies, Graham. Can you tell me what specific version of 1Password you are using on your iOS devices? 1Password 3 for iOS behaves very differently than 1Password 4 for iOS, so I just want to make sure I'm not barking up the wrong tree.

grahampcharles

3.7.2, but the App Store isn't reporting that an update is available... I'll go hunting for version 4. I should have known it was available?

grahampcharles

Hm. Looks like version 4 costs another $8 ("on sale!") and doesn't have a lock code anymore. So I need to replace my already-working iOS version to a less-functional version in order to make my (already-paid-for) Windows version work the way it's supposed to?



That's not satisfying to me. Please advise.

khad

1Password 4 for iOS is a separate purchase so users of old devices can still use the old version 3. The introductory sale is over 50% OFF to celebrate and help folks migrate. If you’re happy with version 3, you’re not required to purchase. It is up to us to demonstrate the value. Perhaps you like what you see: http://blog.agilebits.com/2012/12/13/new-1password-4-ios/



The old PIN has been removed in favor of a much more secure Quick Unlock Code. It is essentially the same, but is not enabled by default. It needs to be enabled in the settings of 1Password 4 for iOS. One of our goals with 1Password 4 for iOS was to make strong security the default. The old PIN code had the downside of being used to actually [i]encrypt[/i] some items and with only 10,000 possibilities, this just wasn't good enough for us to continue with. We did away with that approach in the first iPad version as well. The PIN code was originally conceived as a convenience feature for frequently accessed items in the time before iPhone OS supported fast app switching and background tasks. It was a compromise we were never happy with, but it provided the best balance of security and user experience at the time. We do still have the unlock code available in settings, but it is [i][b]only used to control access to the 1Password application, never for encryption of any of your data[/b][/i]. You can read more about the Quick Unlock Code feature of 1Password 4 in the User Guide:



http://learn.agilebits.com/1Password4/iOS/Settings/ios-auto-locks.html



Back to the matter at hand, 1Password 4 for iOS does use the same master password as the data file, but what I wrote above[i][b] applies to 1Password 3 for iOS[/b][/i]:



"Your master password does not have to be the same between 1Password for Mac/Windows and your 1Password [version 3] iOS app(s). …[T]hey are never synced from one device/platform to another."



Again, just create a new data folder in 1Password for Windows and set up Dropbox syncing with the new data folder. Your data from 1Password 3 for iOS will sync [i][b]into[/b][/i] the empty data folder on your PC.

grahampcharles

Most importantly, and to confirm what appears to be the case: the current version of 1Password for Windows will not work with 1Password version 3 for iOS. Correct?



This:



[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Again, just create a new data folder in 1Password for Windows and set up Dropbox syncing with the new data folder. Your data from 1Password 3 for iOS will sync [/font][/color][i][b]into[/b][/i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] the empty data folder on your PC.[/font][/color][/quote]



[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Doesn't work, at least out of the box. Maybe there's some trick? [/font][/color]Or can I get a legacy download please, a Windows version that still works? (Or a refund on the Windows purchase, I guess. Sad to have to transition everything though.)



g.

khad

[quote]Most importantly, and to confirm what appears to be the case: the current version of 1Password for Windows will not work with 1Password version 3 for iOS. Correct?[/quote]

All versions of 1Password sync via Dropbox 1Password 3 for iOS and 1Password for Windows are no exception. They sync very well via Dropbox.



[quote]Doesn't work, at least out of the box. Maybe there's some trick? Or can I get a legacy download please, a Windows version that still works? (Or a refund on the Windows purchase, I guess. Sad to have to transition everything though.)[/quote]



I'm not sure what you mean by "out of the box." It sounds like there was an existing data folder in your Dropbox account with a different master password that you do not remember. Have you created a new data folder in 1Password for Windows?



If so, make sure that only that data folder is in your Dropbox folder and that 1Password for Windows is using it as the active data folder. Then reset Dropbox syncing in 1Password 3 for iOS. Open 1Password 3 and tap:



[b]Settings > Sync > Dropbox > Account > Reset[/b]



And then set up Dropbox syncing with the new data folder. Your data will be synced to the new data folder in 1Password for Windows.

grahampcharles

> Have you created a new data folder in 1Password for Windows?



No, unless that happens automatically. I install, and then try to open the existing keychain folder from my Dropbox. I use the master password that works fine on my iOS devices, but you've explained that won't work (out of curiosity -- why not? Encryption is encryption.).



> an existing password that you do not remember.



No, where do you get that idea? I never created a database on this install. My master password works fine on iOS.



So I'm stuck. You describe a flow for creating a new file and then synching to it, which I'll try but it feels far from intuitive. The upshot is that my devices don't open the same database, they synch each sync their own with each other, yes? Because of course to do that, they'd need to share a master password. Sigh.

khad

[quote]No, unless that happens automatically.[/quote]

You will need to create a new data folder. I mentioned this in my very post reply:



"Fortunately, if you have all your data on your iOS devices all of it will sync *into* a new data folder that you create in 1Password for Windows, so you likely won't miss a beat."



I apologize for not giving more explicit instructions. I should have done so:



1. Move any existing "1Password.agilekeychain" data folder from your Dropbox folder.

2. Select [b]File > New 1Password Data Folder[/b] from the menu bar in 1Password for Windows.

3. Reset Dropbox syncing on your iOS device(s). From within the 1Password app, tap: [b]Settings > Sync > Dropbox > Account > Reset[/b]

4. Then enable Dropbox syncing in 1Password for iOS.





[quote]No, where do you get that idea? I never created a database on this install. My master password works fine on iOS. [/quote]

1Password 3 for iOS does not create a data folder in your Dropbox folder. The code to do so is simply not present in the app to do so. It is impossible to create a data folder in Dropbox with only the mobile app. At some point or another, you necessarily [i][b]must have[/b][/i] created a 1Password data folder in your Dropbox folder via either 1Password for Windows or 1Password for Mac.



[quote]My master password works fine on iOS. [/quote]

I understand that. That is not related to the data file which apparently was created using a different master password.



[quote]I use the master password that works fine on my iOS devices, but you've explained that won't work (out of curiosity -- why not? Encryption is encryption.). … [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] Because of course to do that, they'd need to share a master password.[/font][/color] [/quote]

What keeps attackers out of that old data folder is exactly what is keeping you out of it. The master password is unknown to you. 1Password 3 for iOS stores a local copy of your data which is [i][b]separately encrypted[/b][/i]. Thus the master password does not have to be the same in 1Password 3 for iOS and 1Password for Windows. For the sake of simplicity, in your case it is probably best to just keep them the same to avoid any additional confusion.



I understand it can be confusing which is why this was changed in 1Password 4 for iOS, the new version that was just released last week. The local copy on the device is [i][b]not[/b][/i] separately encrypted. It is literally a copy of the data folder, so it is unlocked with the same master password no matter where you access it. We saw how confusing this seemed to be for some folks, so we simplified it.



It's no big deal, though. Just create a new data folder in 1Password for Windows as I mentioned yesterday, reset Dropbox sync in the iOS app, and you would have already been syncing by now. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



Please do let me know if you are still having trouble after actually following the steps I've been trying to get you to follow. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

grahampcharles

You're annoyed, and I'm sorry. I'm a programmer myself and know how users can fail to see the most obvious things.



Hopefully my struggles with your software will point out some correctable usability issues.



[quote name='khad' timestamp='1356142017' post='66180']

1Password 3 for iOS does not create a data folder in your Dropbox folder. The code to do so is simply not present in the app to do so. It is impossible to create a data folder in Dropbox with only the mobile app. At some point or another, you necessarily [i][b]must have[/b][/i] created a 1Password data folder in your Dropbox folder via either 1Password for Windows or 1Password for Mac.

[/quote]



Indeed, yes, but on a different computer. And 1Password works fine on that computer, with my existing master password. Here's what I've got:



1) "Old" computer -- 1Password works fine.

2) 2 iOS devices, 1Password works fine.

3) "New" computer -- can't get access to my 1Password data file.



I assumed (incorrectly?) that all four devices were using the keyfile on my Dropbox. It sounds from your reply that that's not the case, but that the passwords sync into and out of the dropbox from all four places as I open the app in each spot?



[quote]

What keeps attackers out of that old data folder is exactly what is keeping you out of it. The master password is unknown to you.

[/quote]



No, I know my master password. I really do. It's the same on all four devices.



[quote]

It's no big deal, though. Just create a new data folder in 1Password for Windows as I mentioned yesterday, reset Dropbox sync in the iOS app, and you would have already been syncing by now.

[/quote]



I've done the steps, but



1) My iPad is now stuck on "Loading remote encryption keys" (20 minutes so far). I hope this is simply a very long step?

2) I still don't know how to get to the data file from the (new) Windows installation. My options, as I see them, are "Open a data file" (which I tried before) and "Move data file to dropbox" (but there's already one there).





[quote]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Please do let me know if you are still having trouble after actually following the steps I've been trying to get you to follow.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][/quote][/font][/color]



[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Really? Uncalled for. I've got no interest in fighting your software either.[/font][/color]



g.

khad

Thanks for letting me know some more important details. You didn't say that you were using 1Password for Windows and syncing it via Dropbox on another computer. It sounded like your data was only on iOS.Actually can you confirm for me that all your data is in 1Password for Windows on the machine where you set up Dropbox syncing (the one on which things are working well)? What is the path that is listed in 1Password for Windows' preference on that machine? Here is mine as an example:



[code]C:\Users\khad\Dropbox\1Password\1Password.agilekeychain[/code]



[img]http://cdn.agilebits.com/k/img/Preferences-20130104-151727.png[/img]