Dropbox alternatives

CraftGeek · January 2011

<div class="IPBDescription">syncing Mac and Windows computers without Dropbox</div>[list]

[*]My wife and I each have Macs with 1Password loaded. We each synchronize our database to our iPhone and iPad.

[*]Both Macs are on our home WiFi network. On this network, we also have a mac server that is always up with shared drives.

[*]We do not want to trust a third party with our sensitive data, even though it is encrypted. So, we do not want to sync our databases via DropBox.

[/list]

How can we sync our databases together so we maintain one synchronized set of data?

thightower · January 2011

Hi CraftGeek,

This link should help you out. [url="http://help.agile.ws/1Password/sync_solutions.html"]http://help.agile.ws..._solutions.html[/url]

The first sentence has links to topics on the various sync options.Looks like you would be asking about the Chronosync option. I don't use it I use Dropbox so i am afraid I am not that familiar with its setup etc.

CraftGeek · January 2011

[quote name='thightower' timestamp='1293981581' post='18412']

Hi CraftGeek,

This link should help you out. [url="http://help.agile.ws/1Password/sync_solutions.html"]http://help.agile.ws..._solutions.html[/url]

The first sentence has links to topics on the various sync options.Looks like you would be asking about the Chronosync option. I don't use it I use Dropbox so i am afraid I am not that familiar with its setup etc.

[/quote]

Thanks. I tried the Chronosync option but the resulting data base was corrupted. I've been using Chronosync for a while now so I don't think I did anything obviously bone headed....

I actually have two motivations for asking this question. One is the personal need stated above and the other is a desire to use this in my office. If there were a reliable way to sync databases, or share the same database between multiple users, I could propose this solution to my fellow IT staff at work.

thightower · January 2011

[quote name='CraftGeek' timestamp='1294013959' post='18426']

Thanks. I tried the Chronosync option but the resulting data base was corrupted. I've been using Chronosync for a while now so I don't think I did anything obviously bone headed....

I actually have two motivations for asking this question. One is the personal need stated above and the other is a desire to use this in my office. If there were a reliable way to sync databases, or share the same database between multiple users, I could propose this solution to my fellow IT staff at work.

[/quote]

I do remember one thing JustG told me in a post which seems to be lost after the forum move. Anyway.... in order to get CS to work properly it must be set to dissect packages if that helps any. You may want to try and check that setting.

I am sorry I do not know where it is to advise you. Incidentally, I do own a copy of CS (likely outdated v3 something I think ) but it very quickly got left behind when I moved on to Dropbox and haven't looked at it in years.

Most times the other admins look in and check on posts so maybe one of them may be able to shed some more light on the subject for you.

[Deleted User] · January 2011

Hi CraftGeek,

First of all, thanks for the post, you raise a really interesting question about syncing within your own network. I think Tommy is on the right thread with the option within ChronoSync, and unfortunately I don't have a copy of CS to test with or I'd gladly spend the time to test between my MacBook Pro and iMac for you.

Let me start with a bit of a reassurance about using Dropbox, which everyone here at Agile Web Solutions uses for our 1Password data. While it's true that you're trusting your data to a 3rd party the fact that your 1Password data is encrypted means that an attacker would need to have your master password for the data to be of any use to them, that's assuming they can actually get your data from Dropbox. That's the other key thing, Dropbox isn't like storing your data on a public web server that anyone can access, your account is encrypted with 256-bit AES encryption and no-one can access your account without your password, not even the Dropbox staff, they go into this in some detail here:

https://www.dropbox.com/help/27

With all that said, at the end of the day, it really is down to you how your store your 1Password data, and that's something we're keen believers in and why Dropbox is not a mandatory feature, it's entirely optional. We are looking into more sync solutions for the future, ones that we'll fully support like we do with Dropbox, but as any developer will tell you syncing is far from easy so we need to take our time to make sure that any potential solution is secure and reliable before we let our users trust their 1Password data with it.

I know that's not really a very helpful answer, but I hope it gives you an idea of where we're heading with syncing for the future.

[quote name='CraftGeek' timestamp='1294013959' post='18426']

Thanks. I tried the Chronosync option but the resulting data base was corrupted. I've been using Chronosync for a while now so I don't think I did anything obviously bone headed....

I actually have two motivations for asking this question. One is the personal need stated above and the other is a desire to use this in my office. If there were a reliable way to sync databases, or share the same database between multiple users, I could propose this solution to my fellow IT staff at work.

[/quote]

CraftGeek · January 2011

Thanks Stu,

While I trust AES 256 in theory, there is alwasys a human element to add to the security equation. See [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Encryption_Standard#Side-channel_attacks"]Side-channel attacks HERE[/url]. For my data and my organization's data, I would rather have AES 256 combined with isolation behind our firewalls.

While I [b][i]think[/i][/b] that the good folks at DropBox have the best intent and are competent, I don't [b][i]KNOW[/i][/b] this to be true. This unknown is mostly alleviated by keeping the data in house where possible.

Also, researchers are continuing to look for ways to break AES 256. It will be broken. Will we know when this occurs in time to protect our data with the latest protocols? [i][b]Probably[/b][/i]. Is "probably" good enough? No.

Sean

[quote name='stu' timestamp='1294022597' post='18428']

Hi CraftGeek,

First of all, thanks for the post, you raise a really interesting question about syncing within your own network. I think Tommy is on the right thread with the option within ChronoSync, and unfortunately I don't have a copy of CS to test with or I'd gladly spend the time to test between my MacBook Pro and iMac for you.

Let me start with a bit of a reassurance about using Dropbox, which everyone here at Agile Web Solutions uses for our 1Password data. While it's true that you're trusting your data to a 3rd party the fact that your 1Password data is encrypted means that an attacker would need to have your master password for the data to be of any use to them, that's assuming they can actually get your data from Dropbox. That's the other key thing, Dropbox isn't like storing your data on a public web server that anyone can access, your account is encrypted with 256-bit AES encryption and no-one can access your account without your password, not even the Dropbox staff, they go into this in some detail here:

https://www.dropbox.com/help/27

With all that said, at the end of the day, it really is down to you how your store your 1Password data, and that's something we're keen believers in and why Dropbox is not a mandatory feature, it's entirely optional. We are looking into more sync solutions for the future, ones that we'll fully support like we do with Dropbox, but as any developer will tell you syncing is far from easy so we need to take our time to make sure that any potential solution is secure and reliable before we let our users trust their 1Password data with it.

I know that's not really a very helpful answer, but I hope it gives you an idea of where we're heading with syncing for the future.

[/quote]

RobYoder · January 2011

Very well stated, CraftGeek. There's always a tradeoff between security and convenience, and the correct balance depends on your needs.

CraftGeek · January 2011

If you can create a solid one-to-many server based synchronization tool for the 1Password database, you will not only make me very happy but you will also be able to sell the product to a very lucrative corporate and government client set.

I think it would definitely be worth your effort.

RobYoder · January 2011

[quote name='CraftGeek' timestamp='1294179925' post='18502']

If you can create a solid one-to-many server based synchronization tool for the 1Password database, you will not only make me very happy but you will also be able to sell the product to a very lucrative corporate and government client set.

I think it would definitely be worth your effort.

[/quote]

That's an interesting idea, CraftGeek. You mean something that you can host on your own server, correct? Our customer base is mostly consumers and not businesses or government organizations, but that could change I suppose.

CraftGeek · January 2011

[quote name='RobYoder' timestamp='1294200156' post='18507']

That's an interesting idea, CraftGeek. You mean something that you can host on your own server, correct? Our customer base is mostly consumers and not businesses or government organizations, but that could change I suppose.

[/quote]

Yes, I was thinking about a small background service that securely syncs individual records from a central database to the database already on the client side. If the sync to server option is not enabled on the client, everything would function as it does now. Of course the question arrises, "Which OS?".

I wonder if existing synchronization code from your current product could be used....

RobYoder · January 2011

[quote name='CraftGeek' timestamp='1294261491' post='18519']

Yes, I was thinking about a small background service that securely syncs individual records from a central database to the database already on the client side. If the sync to server option is not enabled on the client, everything would function as it does now. Of course the question arrises, "Which OS?".

I wonder if existing synchronization code from your current product could be used....

[/quote]

I'll pass this on, CraftGeek. We have some ideas for making syncing and sharing easier, but I'm not sure they included something like this. The only drawback to this would be that there is such a small use case. Not many users need their to be able to host their own 1Password data sharing system.

Anyway, it has been noted, and I'll see what the team says. Thanks for the feedback!

CraftGeek · January 2011

[quote name='RobYoder' timestamp='1294200156' post='18507']

Our customer base is mostly consumers and not businesses or government organizations, but that could change I suppose.

[/quote]

[quote name='RobYoder' timestamp='1294263807' post='18524']

Not many users need their to be able to host their own 1Password data sharing system.

[/quote]

I suspect that if you asked potential corporate customer's IT staff what was the main reason they do not use 1Password, they will tell you it is a concern for data integrity centered on the current cloud model.

As a Server Administrator for medium sized IT department, I would love to incorporate your product in my organization, if this is addressed. We need to have a shared pool of mission critical sensitive data, like server passwords. I have not found a better stand alone app. Wish my team and our partner teams in IT could use it.

Thanks for listening.

Sean H

RobYoder · January 2011

I do like the idea. Thanks for bringing it up!

magnusbe · January 2011

Hi,

My favorite way to be able to share the keychain between workstations and iPhones/iPads would be a feature to have the keychain on a SFTP server. There are some services that offers SFTP-volumes and it's also easy to set up a SSH-server on almost any kind of server/OS combination so you wouldn't have to bother with the server side.

As I share the doubts about putting sensitive data on public services that I don't have full control of, I really can't use the dropbox sync feature which except for that looks really nifty.

Thanks!

//Magnus

hct99 · January 2011

Thanks for bringing this issue up. I used Dropbox since a while to sync 1PW between my iMac at work and a mini and MacBook Pro at home (and iPhone of course), and that with several accounts. Because Dropbox became quite popular at our institute the IT blocked access: our management did not like the idea to having sensitive data out in the cloud ...

So they installed [url="http://ifolder.com/ifolder"]iFolder[/url] on a server here for sharing data. I did not yet try it but could this be an option for syncing the 1PW keychain? Does anyone know iFolder?

RobYoder · January 2011

Welcome to the forums, magnusbe and hct99, and thanks for the feedback!

hct99, I haven't heard of iFolder, and it's not on our to-do list at the moment, but we try to never say never.

hct99 · January 2011

[quote name='RobYoder' timestamp='1294937197' post='18923']

Welcome to the forums, magnusbe and hct99, and thanks for the feedback!

hct99, I haven't heard of iFolder, and it's not on our to-do list at the moment, but we try to never say never.

[/quote]

Thanks, maybe someone finds some time to try this <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

RobYoder · January 2011

I just wanted to clarify that while we don't support iFolder in 1Password for iOS devices, it should work just fine to sync your data between your Macs and Windows PCs.

hct99 · January 2011

[quote name='RobYoder' timestamp='1295470272' post='19224']

I just wanted to clarify that while we don't support iFolder in 1Password for iOS devices, it should work just fine to sync your data between your Macs and Windows PCs.

[/quote]

Thanks, that helps. 1PW for iOS and iFolder is a different story, I understand. I guess it would require having a VPN connection to our company's server where iFolder is located etc.

But for syncing the Agile keychain between computers only you see now problems. Do I understand correctly?

khad · January 2011

Correct. Since we support Dropbox syncing directly within 1Password for iOS — required since we cannot rely on a background process to run as in Mac or Windows environment — iFolder support would require additional support within our iOS apps. However, in Mac and Windows, you can run iFolder as a background process to sync everything just fine.

I am actually really glad you pointed this out. [url="http://ifolder.com/ifolder"]iFolder[/url] looks like an open source self-hosted Dropbox replacement. Very cool! I haven't tested it yet, but it may be a great solution for many of our users who, for various reasons, are unwilling or unable to use Dropbox.

Thanks!

hct99 · January 2011

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1296065892' post='19526']

Correct. Since we support Dropbox syncing directly within 1Password for iOS — required since we cannot rely on a background process to run as in Mac or Windows environment — iFolder support would require additional support within our iOS apps. However, in Mac and Windows, you can run iFolder as a background process to sync everything just fine.

I am actually really glad you pointed this out. [url="http://ifolder.com/ifolder"]iFolder[/url] looks like an open source self-hosted Dropbox replacement. Very cool! I haven't tested it yet, but it may be a great solution for many of our users who, for various reasons, are unwilling or unable to use Dropbox.

Thanks!

[/quote]

Many thanks for taking iFolder into consideration.

best,

christian

khad · January 2011

iFolder looks very cool in theory but in practice, I think only large institutions have the resources to set the thing up. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_worried.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':S' />

It is not a simple setup. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

hct99 · February 2011

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1296523764' post='19847']

iFolder looks very cool in theory but in practice, I think only large institutions have the resources to set the thing up. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_worried.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':S' />

It is not a simple setup. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

[/quote]

Could be true (I would have to ask our IT about setup. We are ~400 employes), but especially large institutions are quite critical about cloud syncing.

khad · February 2011

It may work well in such an environment that (1) is not keen on cloud services (2) has the IT resources to essentially set up their own "baby cloud" services. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

daniellench · February 2011

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1296065892' post='19526']

Correct. Since we support Dropbox syncing directly within 1Password for iOS — required since we cannot rely on a background process to run as in Mac or Windows environment — iFolder support would require additional support within our iOS apps. However, in Mac and Windows, you can run iFolder as a background process to sync everything just fine.

I am actually really glad you pointed this out. [url="http://ifolder.com/ifolder"]iFolder[/url] looks like an open source self-hosted Dropbox replacement. Very cool! I haven't tested it yet, but it may be a great solution for many of our users who, for various reasons, are unwilling or unable to use Dropbox.

Thanks!

[/quote]

soo... i get google alerts for 'ifolder'

here is my tutorial that has been written in coordination with about 40 installs on different hardware and on VM's good luck

http://www.daniellench.com/2010/08/ifolder-on-opensuse-11-3/

best,

dan!

khad · February 2011

Welcome to the forums, Dan, and thanks for that tutorial!

I think you have thoroughly proven my point regarding complicated setup: <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

[quote]Download and install openSUSE 11.3 with GNOME (or KDE) as Desktop Environment (DE) (a DE is not required, but easy when needing to manage the system.).[/quote]

Dropbox alternatives

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