Tags vs. folders

BobAgile · February 2011

<div class="IPBDescription">For multiple roles.</div>I'm considering using DropBox to store my 1Password data, and then merging my personal and work data, so I can easily access work passwords from home, and iPhone.

It appears I could tag all the items in personal (drag and drop -- very nice), then do the work ones, then merge.

Are there any pros and cons to using tags vs. folders for this situation? Thanks.

Bob

thightower · February 2011

[quote name='BobAgile' timestamp='1298827517' post='21502']

I'm considering using DropBox to store my 1Password data, and then merging my personal and work data, so I can easily access work passwords from home, and iPhone.

It appears I could tag all the items in personal (drag and drop -- very nice), then do the work ones, then merge.

Are there any pros and cons to using tags vs. folders for this situation? Thanks.

Bob

[/quote]

Hi Bob

Its really up to you, I was always a folder man, from day 1,

Slowly I brought myself around to trying tags because I was getting so frustrated by the rigidity of the folder structure. I have since embraced tags 1000% and no longer use folders at all. I love there flexibility.

Its really is just a matter of personal choice in the long run. I cant tell you how many times I reorganized my 1P data base to use folders and a week later would tweak it etc. Its just so much easier on me with tags.

In your case I may go this route create a tag called personal and apply it to all at home, then make one for work and apply it at work and them merge (export import really). then make smart folders for each tag.

I stick with tag's because of the ability to create smart folders, with multiple possibilities.

Good Luck.

BobAgile · February 2011

Much appreciated, thanks a lot.

khad · February 2011

On behalf of Tommy, you are quite welcome! <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

We are always here to help.

Cheers!

fonsecafoto · February 2011

I'm glad you posted this topic. Is there anyway to select multiple entries and then make them all the same tag. As in, I select twitter and facebook logins and then edit them both to add the tag social media?

This would be a time saver in applying multiple tags quickly!

Thanks in advance!

C.

khad · February 2011

Welcome to the forums, fonsecafoto!

There is not a way to add a non-existent tag to multiple items, but if the tag already exists you can drag the items on top of the tag in the sidebar just like you would do with a folder. The difference is that any single item is not limited to a single tag (like it is limited to a single folder).

I hope that helps. Please let me know.

Thanks!

thightower · February 2011

[quote name='fonsecafoto' timestamp='1298925560' post='21615']

I'm glad you posted this topic. Is there anyway to select multiple entries and then make them all the same tag. As in, I select twitter and facebook logins and then edit them both to add the tag social media?

This would be a time saver in applying multiple tags quickly!

Thanks in advance!

C.

[/quote]

To apply multiple tags

[list=1][*]Command click on all the entries.... (logins for example) that you wish to associate with the tag (Social Media for example).[*]They will all turn blue,[*]Then click and hold on one of the entries and drag your mouse pointer over the top of the tag.[*]The tag will hi light blue under your mouse pointer.[*]Release[*]Tag is applied[/list]

Be careful not to click elsewhere when doing this and make sure to hold the command key till you are done or you will lose the previously selected entries.

Tip to remove all tags for an entry really fast:

Follow procedure above for single or multiple items but drag the entries over the top of the untagged folder in the sidebar,

All tags will be removed.

Easier than editing etc. but only if you want to remove all tags.

BobAgile · March 2011

Pardon if I've missed any of this in the documentation (I did give it somewhat of a lookover).

1) If I want to only look at information with a particular tag, I can select that tag, and browse. Is there any way to be able to select any one Vault item, and only see items with a particular tag?

2) I'd like to be able to do a search and only see items with a particular tag. When I start a search, with a tag as a selection, I get all results matching my criteria, regardless of tags. I can then constrain the search to "Selected Section", and I get what I'm after, but I would like to be able to choose "Selected Section" *prior* to my search, however that strip of choices is not visible until after I've searched.

Thanks.

Bob

[Deleted User] · March 2011

[quote name='BobAgile' timestamp='1299000727' post='21678']

Pardon if I've missed any of this in the documentation (I did give it somewhat of a lookover).[/quote]

Bob, our documentation does need a bit more detail about using tags and the like, we've got some plans to really improve this in the coming months.

[quote]1) If I want to only look at information with a particular tag, I can select that tag, and browse. Is there any way to be able to select any one Vault item, and only see items with a particular tag?[/quote]

The best way to achieve this would be to create a 'Smart Folder' that had the criteria to choose a specific 'Kind' of item, for example a Login, and select the given tag. You can create a new Smart Folder by going to File > New Smart Folder and then tweaking the search criteria as described here:

http://help.agile.ws/1Password3/how_to_create_smart_folders.html

[quote] 2) I'd like to be able to do a search and only see items with a particular tag. When I start a search, with a tag as a selection, I get all results matching my criteria, regardless of tags. I can then constrain the search to "Selected Section", and I get what I'm after, but I would like to be able to choose "Selected Section" *prior* to my search, however that strip of choices is not visible until after I've searched.[/quote]

If I remember correctly, we used to have it so the default would be 'Selected Section' but a lot of users wanted us to change this so they had an instant global search available. I'm not sure of a way to accommodate both use cases, but I'll certainly mention this to our developers to see what we can do.

Hope that helps,

BobAgile · March 2011

[quote name='stu' timestamp='1299002033' post='21680']

... create a 'Smart Folder' ...

[/quote]

That's great! (Just one suggestion, if it makes sense, programmatically and in terms of UX, would be to allow auto-fill when choosing and entering a tag, as is possible in other part(s) of the interface.)

[quote name='stu' timestamp='1299002033' post='21680']

If I remember correctly, we used to have it so the default would be 'Selected Section' but a lot of users wanted us to change this so they had an instant global search available. I'm not sure of a way to accommodate both use cases, but I'll certainly mention this to our developers to see what we can do.

[/quote]

If that search 'bar' was present *prior* to search, it would solve the problem. I too prefer keeping "Everything" & "Everything" (the equivalent of global search, I think) as the default, but simply want be able to choose "Selected Section" (or what have you), prior to initiating a search, when desired. If "Everything" & "Everything" continued to be selected by default, I would think most people who want global search would be happy (unless perhaps they would be bothered by even seeing the search 'bar').

Thanks a lot.

khad · March 2011

[quote]Just one suggestion, if it makes sense, programmatically and in terms of UX, would be to allow auto-fill when choosing and entering a tag, as is possible in other part(s) of the interface.[/quote]

I think the reason autocomplete is not used for tags when part of a Smart Folder search criteria is that you are entering text which the tag [i]contains[/i] but not always the full tag. I'll pass this suggestion along to the developers, though.

I think having the search bar visible when you are not searching would be quite confusing to many users since it would not do anything unless a search term was entered in the search field, but I will pass along your suggestion in this regard as well.

Cheers,

Harald · March 2011

[quote name='thightower' timestamp='1298828020' post='21505']

Slowly I brought myself around to trying tags because I was getting so frustrated by the rigidity of the folder structure. I have since embraced tags 1000% and no longer use folders at all. I love there flexibility.

[/quote]

I also went for 100% tags, but I really would like to warn about it, since it is seriously limited, and I am surprised that you have embraced it without being plagued by its deficiencies.

As highlighted in the post: http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/3237-tag-problems/page__p__18701__hl__tags__fromsearch__1, the following should be considered before going "all-tagged":

[list=1]

[*]It is currently not possible to also remove a tag from a set of items (i.e do it on a collection rather than one-by-one). (One can of course completely remove all tags by dragging to the tag-folder named Untagged, but that's not what we want -- we want to remove ONE tag on a number of items.)

[*]Smart folder can only match tags that CONTAINS a string. What we need is a way to also choose: IS, IS NOT (for individual tags, not the entire tag vector of course). Without this feature, it is not possible to search all items that have a certain tag but not a certain other tag.

[*]1Password for iPhone does (currently) NOT support tags!! Having a couple of hundred items on the iPhone with no such categories is going to be a real pain!

[*]Every tag collection of items has its own column settings, such as which columns to display and their widths. I want to have the same column settings for a number of (or all) tag collections. However, it is not possible to change the column settings for more than one single tag collection at a time. In contrast, every folder has the same column settings, and modifying the settings of one folder will modify the others also.

[/list]

My view is that tags is not going to be superior to folders in all aspects until the above issues are solved. The most serious limitation is probably the lack of support in the iPhone.

Jim here · March 2011

Wow, I learned a lot from this topic. Especially about applying tags to multiple items at once from thightower and khad. I've been wanting to do that, but never guessed how. And more differences between tags and folders from Harald in the last post. Thanks everyone.

Jim

benfdc · March 2011

Note that 1P/Win also lacks tag support at present. Until tag support is ubiquitous, Folders remain important.

khad · March 2011

[quote]Note that 1P/Win also lacks tag support at present. Until tag support is ubiquitous, Folders remain important. [/quote]

A very important point for our cross-platform users, benfdc! Thanks for mentioning that.

Harald, thanks for re-posting that information. Sometimes it is good to have reminders in order to stay motivated. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

tuni · June 2011

I guess I'm not understanding the difference between the two. I set up my logins, set up the tags such as Household, Financial, shopping etc.....is that a mistake, should I have set up these titles as Files instead of tags.....can someone briefly explain the benefits of using each - or should I be using both? to what end?

Trying to get this new app organized but my brain is not handling the concept well..

thx

[Deleted User] · June 2011

Hello tuni,

[i]Tags[/i] are [i][b]categories[/b] or[b] keywords[/b][/i]. You can create Tags for any category you wish, and then [i][b]search[/b][/i] 1P for a specific Tag, combination of Tags or a combination of entries that do not have specific Tags.

Smart [i]Folders[/i] are [i][b]saved searches[/b][/i]. As mentioned above, you can use 1P's search function to search for entries using Boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, etc.). If you don't wish to create the search parameters more than once, you can [b][i]save the search[/i][/b]. This action creates a Smart Folder.

For more information, please review the following help guides: [url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password3/tags.html"]Tags[/url] & [url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password3/how_to_create_smart_folders.html"]Smart Folders[/url]

If you are still confused between the difference, please let me know. I'll do my best to provide a clearer explanation.

Cheers!

Brandt

P.S. As noted in the Smart Folders help guide, you can [b][i]search[/i][/b] 1P for [b][i]more[/i][/b] than just Tags. You can search for URLs, usernames, words, etc. Tags are but [b][i]one[/i][/b] of the search parameters you have available.

Tags vs. folders

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