"Unfiled" Smart Folder

SirAtilla

<div class="IPBDescription">No longer included by default</div>I noticed when I received the 3.6 Beta 7 update that the Unfiled smart folder disappeared. Is this by design?

[Deleted User]

[quote name='SirAtilla' timestamp='1301617853' post='23636']

I noticed when I received the 3.6 Beta 7 update that the Unfiled smart folder disappeared. Is this by design?

[/quote]

Maybe it's an unintended side effect of undocumented changes related to recent discussion: [url=http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/4072-extra-stuff-in-my-unfiled-folder/page__view__findpost__p__23314]here[/url]? Pure speculation, since I'm still running 3.5.9 and AWS definitely has a more thorough/detailed (and appreciated!) change history than most developers.

khad

[quote]Is this by design?[/quote]

Yes, unfortunately it did not find its way into the release notes. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_worried.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':S' />



I'll make a mention of this.



sjk, my understanding is that it is indirectly related to feedback of the nature to which you link. I don't know how directly that particular thread impacted the decision, but I think it is safe to assume it was a factor.

SirAtilla

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1301658479' post='23671']

Yes, unfortunately it did not find its way into the release notes. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_worried.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':S' />



I'll make a mention of this.



sjk, my understanding is that is indirectly related to feedback of the nature to which you link. I don't know how directly that particular thread impacted the decision, but I think it is safe to assume it was a factor.

[/quote]



Hopefully you can re-create the folder by hand as it is something I referenced a fair amount. I used it as "my stuff or organize" folder.

brenty

[quote name='SirAtilla' timestamp='1301659002' post='23672']

Hopefully you can re-create the folder by hand as it is something I referenced a fair amount. I used it as "my stuff or organize" folder.

[/quote]



I think that -- while it might require some effort -- it is probably more useful to set up a smart folder to meet a specific need we might have. For example, I have one set up to collect all of the passwords that sorely need updating (old, weak, duplicate, etc.)



Having generated passwords show up in an "Unfiled" smart folder, essentially announcing themselves made me uneasy; and having a folder that automatically collected every example of my poor organizational skills was kind of depressing -- a monument to my failures as a child of the information age! <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



I am sorry that we didn't give you guys a heads up when we made this change, but hopefully the additional features we add will be some consolation. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Locker

3.6.0.BETA-13



I don't see the "Unfiled' folder. I thought is used to be listed at the top of the folders list. I now see only the "All" (and the list of the specific folders).

thightower

[quote name='Locker' timestamp='1302717456' post='24781']

3.6.0.BETA-13



I don't see the "Unfiled' folder. I thought is used to be listed at the top of the folders list. I now see only the "All" (and the list of the specific folders).

[/quote]



I think it went the way of the DoDo bird. I cant remember exactly but it was changed a few betas ago.

[Deleted User]

Check the results of a Posts search for [i]Unfiled[/i]. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

thightower

[quote name='sjk' timestamp='1302724789' post='24798']

Check the results of a Posts search for [i]Unfiled[/i]. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[/quote]







Ok this forum is really ticking me off.



If you wanna know why just search for "unfiled" and "Unfiled"



Major difference in post, it should not be case specific.



Now dang it I just opened a new tab and it responded correctly.



I know I am not going crazy because I tried to replicate it... Grrrrrrrrrr

thightower

Here you go Locker,



http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/4171-unfiled-smart-folder-disappeared/page__p__23636__hl__unfiled__fromsearch__1#entry23636

thightower

[quote name='sjk' timestamp='1302724789' post='24798']

Check the results of a Posts search for [i]Unfiled[/i]. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[/quote]







I dont know if I should say thanks sjk. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />



I always capitalize words when searching maybe I need to try both upper and lower case myself. I guess it could be that bump on the head today, I have a goose egg on the noggin. Oh well maybe it was me and I thought I did ... Good chuckle you gave me anyway. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

[Deleted User]

[quote name='thightower' timestamp='1302725805' post='24803']

If you wanna know why just search for "unfiled" and "Unfiled"[/quote]

No difference using the [url=http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?app=core&module=search&search_in=core]Search Form[/url], which I usually prefer to do (with the "Display results As posts" option, which I haven't found a way to make the default).

Locker

3.6.0.BETA-14



I need my "Unfiled" folder back! (or you can tell me how to create it as a smart folder)



The confusion that I read in [url="http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/4072-extra-stuff-in-my-unfiled-folder/"]the previous posts[/url] can probably be solved by renaming the heading of "VAULT" to "TYPE" (or as you call it "KIND". Because the name VAULT suggests that it is sort of a storage place, as a folder, which confuse those who asked why an item appears both in VAULT and in FOLDERS.



Originally, when 1PW was still an infant <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />, there were no folders, so VAULT was useful as a way to sort items. Now that there are FOLDERS, and even smart ones, the name VAULT does not fit anymore.



BTW: It is very easy to create a smart folder (by KIND) that will group items the same way vaults do. (ie kind = Login etc). Just that it will not have the nice icon.



So perhaps you can add the attribute "folder" to the parameters to build a smart folder. That way, everybody can define their own "unfiled".



I would (re)make "Unfiled" as "folder isNot anyFfolder"

and martinnel can make it "folder isNot anyFolder" AND "kind isNot Password"



etc.





And something to clarify the difference between Folder and Smart Folder:

The way I see it is you can assign an item to a folder, but you don't (cannot) assign an item to a smart folder. With a smart folder it is more the other way: The smart folder will 'search' across the board for items that have a particular set of attributes (kind, tag, etc).



And when you assigned an item to a Folder, it cannot be in any other folder, including the 'unfiled' "folder".

When you build a Smart Folder, you don't move the item FROM another place into the smart folder. The item still stays wherever it was before (either a folder or unfiled).





I still would keep the original "Unfiled" defind (visible) at least for new users, before they start to see the power if Smart Folders. [and rename VAULT to KIND/TYPE]. You can allow the users to delete the 'unfiled' folder just like they can delete any other smart folder, but ONLY if it will be clear enough how to recreate it again.

Locker

[quote name='thightower' timestamp='1302726104' post='24805']

http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/4171-unfiled-smart-folder-disappeared/page__p__23636__hl__unfiled__fromsearch__1#entry23636

[/quote]





ahh! Who is reading the non Beta board <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



OK. Moving my discussion there.



Thanks.

khad

Hey Locker,



First of all, we really appreciate your feedback. Your passion for the "Unfiled" Smart Folder definitely does not fall on deaf ears (or blind eyes, as the case may be when reading on a screen). I honestly didn't know the change was coming and was a bit caught off guard myself. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';-)' />



I moved your post back to the beta forum — sorry for all the runaround — since the "Unfiled" Smart Folder is still available in the latest stable release and [i]may[/i] return before 3.6.0 stable is released. I just didn't want to needlessly worry or confuse non-beta users. I promise it is nothing nefarious. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



[quote]The confusion that I read in the previous posts can probably be solved by renaming the heading of "VAULT" to "TYPE" (or as you call it "KIND". Because the name VAULT suggests that it is sort of a storage place, as a folder, which confuse those who asked why an item appears both in VAULT and in FOLDERS.[/quote]

I agree. I think it was more of a cognitive perception problem rather than a logistical one.



[quote]So perhaps you can add the attribute "folder" to the parameters to build a smart folder. That way, everybody can define their own "unfiled". [/quote]

This is what I am pushing for internally. I think it is the best solution. I can't make any promises. As I said, I didn't even know this change was coming. However, I am in your corner fighting with you. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



[quote]The way I see it is you can assign an item to a folder, but you don't (cannot) assign an item to a smart folder. With a smart folder it is more the other way: The smart folder will 'search' across the board for items that have a particular set of attributes (kind, tag, etc).[/quote]

A "Saved Search" may be a better name for the Smart Folder feature. It conveys the meaning pretty clearly. However, Finder has had Smart Folders for some time now which function the same. I'm not saying copying Apple is always the best thing to do, but it may actually [i]increase[/i] confusion if we offer another nomenclature for a nearly identical feature that comes as part of Mac OS X intself.



Additionally, I can't be certain, but the reason for the naming may have had something to do with iTunes' "playlists" and "smart playlists" features (cf. "Folders" and "Smart Folders"). I can't recall when Smart Folders were added to Finder, but 1Password's usage may predate said addition.



I think the best option is precisely what you describe. Have the "Unfiled" Smart Folder included by default as an example, but allow users to remove it. This will also require the ability to recreate it through the use of Folders in the Smart Folder search criteria.



Thanks again for pushing for this. I think it is a great idea and am passing it along to the developers. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



Cheers,

Dianeoforegon

[quote name='brenty' timestamp='1302143210' post='24114']

I it is probably more useful to set up a smart folder to meet a specific need we might have.

[/quote]



I can't figure out how to create a smart folder for Unfiled. How about an example?

khad

Hey, Diane. I have merged the two "Unfiled" Smart Folder threads into one. Please see my post above for a more complete response, but at this time, folders are not one of the search criteria for Smart Folders. I would love to see this added in the future, but I don't have a time frame for a specific release right now.



Please let me know if you have any additional questions or concerns.



Thanks!

bwadm

If you need another vote:



PLEASE add back the "Unfiled" folder!!



The only alternative would be to be able to define THAT folder (in a way similar to smart folders in Mail.app) in the interface, but even then it would be good customer care to offer as a default what was there before (until 3.5.9).

roustem

[quote name='bwadm' timestamp='1303484536' post='25392']

If you need another vote:



PLEASE add back the "Unfiled" folder!!



The only alternative would be to be able to define THAT folder (in a way similar to smart folders in Mail.app) in the interface, but even then it would be good customer care to offer as a default what was there before (until 3.5.9).

[/quote]



Turns out that having "Unfiled" folder shown by default also creates quite a bit of confusion among the new users.



I am going to improve the search so that you can easily define the Unfiled smart folder:



[img]https://img.skitch.com/20110423-ddc57ucmcgm4rmxi6ym5dchjf2.png[/img]

brenty

Happy Easter, guys! <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />



[quote name="beta17"][b]Changed:[/b] Improved search and smart folders to allow searching items by folder. You can also use this feature to search for items that do not belong to any folder.[/quote]



Just keep in mind that this is still a beta, and 1Password version 3.6 and higher require Snow Leopard or Lion.

bwadm

[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1303510484' post='25418']

Turns out that having "Unfiled" folder shown by default also creates quite a bit of confusion among the new users.

(**)



I am going to improve the search so that you can easily define the Unfiled smart folder:

(***)

[/quote]



For (**):

OK, see the point.



For (***):

Thanks! I have (re-) created the Unfiled folder right after I read the hint in the update note. Works very well and exactly as I expected! Saw your screenshot after I created the respective search.

All the best! BW

khad

On behalf of Roustem, you are quite welcome! <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



I think this solution may just make everyone happy. Let's hope!



Cheers,

danielandrews

I noticed that recently the 'unsorted' smart folder that is created by 1password got deleted - probably my doing, but regardless, I was wondering if anyone had an idea of how to re-create it?

khad

Welcome to the forums, Daniel!



I merged your post with the appropriate thread in our beta forum since the "Unfiled" Smart Folder is still present in the latest stable release. If you are using the latest beta version, you can recreate the "Unfiled" Smart Folder [url="http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/4354-unfiled-smart-folder-removed/page__view__findpost__p__25418"]as Roustem showed above[/url]:



[b]All[/b] of the following are true, [b]Folder is [empty][/b]



Of course, you can also [url="http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/4038-smarter-smart-folders/page__view__findpost__p__25673"]create some "smarter" Smart Folders[/url] which may be even better suited to your organizational style. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_bigsmile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-D' />



I hope that helps. Please let me know.



Thanks!

ccstephe

I appear to have accidentally eliminated my "unfiled" smart folder. How do I recreate it? I know how to create smart folders but I can't figure out the right instructions for the unfiled folder. Thanks.....

khad

Thanks for asking! I have merged your post with the appropriate thread. Please see [url="http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/4354-unfiled-smart-folder-removed/page__view__findpost__p__25918"]my post directly preceding yours[/url] and let me know if there is anything else I can help with.



Cheers,

mariana

Please put this back. If it is confusing, put it as a preference and provide a line of explanation.

khad

Welcome to the forums, Mariana! <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



Please see [url="http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/4354-unfiled-smart-folder-removed/page__view__findpost__p__25918"]my post above[/url] which explains the current situation and how to recreate the folder in the beta versions where the Unfiled Smart Folder no longer appears by default.



If you need any help recreating the Unfiled Smart Folder, we would be happy to assist you!



Please let me know how it turns out.



Thanks!

iklock

Thank you, thank you! I now have an 'Unfiled' Smart Folder again. I did miss it so, but didn't know how to re-create it. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_blush.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='(blush)' /> <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

Beobe

June 20th, 2011: Version 3.6.0 just deleted my 'Unfiled' folder. Apparently this has happened to people before. Thanks for the screen shot above. Now I can make my own.

khad

Welcome to the forums, iklock and Beobe. I am glad that you were able to manually create the "Unfiled" Smart Folder. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



Thank you for taking the time to let us know that it is working well for you.



If we can be of further assistance, please let us know.



We are always here to help!