Multi-User Dropbox Sync?

mexicotom

At work where I have 1Password installed, we have a single Dropbox account that all of us at work sign into.



I'd like to use dropbox syncing, but that means only one of us at work can use it at a time, because the .ws.agile.1Password.settings file doesn't seem to be prepared for multiple 1Password users accessing it.



This problem seems like it could be fixed easily if the desktop version stopped using the .settings file (or at least stored it outside of the Dropbox folder), and the iOS version allowed you to specify the location of your keychain within the dropbox account.



Is there any workaround?

brenty

Hiya, mexicotom! Welcome to the forums! <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />



If I understand correctly, and you just want to use a common Dropbox account to share a single 1Password.agilekeychain data file between multiple users, this is no different than sync'ing between all of your computers and mobile devices -- it just happens to be different people using the other computers. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



All you folks need to do is install Dropbox on your computers, log in to the common Dropbox account, and let it sync; then launch 1Password and tell it to use the data file stored in Dropbox (you can also just double-click the 1Password.agilekeychain.)



I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



[quote name='mexicotom' timestamp='1304620886' post='26333']

At work where I have 1Password installed, we have a single Dropbox account that all of us at work sign into.



I'd like to use dropbox syncing, but that means only one of us at work can use it at a time, because the .ws.agile.1Password.settings file doesn't seem to be prepared for multiple 1Password users accessing it.



This problem seems like it could be fixed easily if the desktop version stopped using the .settings file (or at least stored it outside of the Dropbox folder), and the iOS version allowed you to specify the location of your keychain within the dropbox account.



Is there any workaround?

[/quote]

mexicotom

[quote name='brenty' timestamp='1304621458' post='26336']

If I understand correctly, and you just want to use a common Dropbox account to share a single 1Password.agilekeychain data file between multiple users, this is no different than sync'ing between all of your computers and mobile devices -- it just happens to be different people using the other computers. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[/quote]



Sorry I should have been clearer. The dropbox account is shared among everyone, just to make filesharing easier in our group. But each of us has our own copy of 1Password, that we don't want to share between us. We still would like to use dropbox syncing, though.



If Dropbox allowed multiple dropbox account logins from the same computer, that would be a workaround. But we're on Macs here, so Dropboxen doesn't work for us.



So the only other thing I can think of is what I said before, 1Password stop using that .settings file (so that multiple people can use dropbox at once), AND the iOS client just ask for the location of the file in dropbox, rather than trying to using the .settings file.



But maybe there's another way that could actually work now, without updates to your software <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

brenty

Ahh. Thanks for clarifying that. At this time this is not possible, though. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />



Dropbox shares work great, but 1Password isn't able to support multiple keychains at this time, though. It's purely 1 keychain, 1 Dropbox, 1Password.



Having multiple keychains and the ability to share them more easily is something we are looking into for a future version. I don't have a timeframe on when this might happen, and it isn't a sure thing, but it is something we are actively pursuing.



Sorry for the confusion. Hopefully we will be able to add this feature at some point. It is something that a lot of people (especially in a business environment) have been asking us for. Frankly, this is something we would use internally as well. Here's hoping. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



[quote name='mexicotom' timestamp='1304621660' post='26337']

Sorry I should have been clearer. The dropbox account is shared among everyone, just to make filesharing easier in our group. But each of us has our own copy of 1Password, that we don't want to share between us. We still would like to use dropbox syncing, though.



If Dropbox allowed multiple dropbox account logins from the same computer, that would be a workaround. But we're on Macs here, so Dropboxen doesn't work for us.



So the only other thing I can think of is what I said before, 1Password stop using that .settings file (so that multiple people can use dropbox at once), AND the iOS client just ask for the location of the file in dropbox, rather than trying to using the .settings file.



But maybe there's another way that could actually work now, without updates to your software <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[/quote]

mexicotom

What about this as a (convoluted <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> workaround:



1. Assuming if I move my 1Password file outside of the Dropbox folder, it will no longer set the .settings file in the root folder of Dropbox...



2. I store the keychain elsewhere on my Mac.



3. I set up a symlink somehow so that Dropbox will sync this 'remotely located file.'



4. I share the Dropbox folder that this symlink is in with my personal Dropbox account.



5. I manually create a .settings file in the root of my personal dropbox folder with the path to this shared keychain file.



6. I have 1Password login to my personal Dropbox rather than my business account...



It seems like that might work?

benfdc

As already noted, this is more of a 1P issue than a Dropbox issue. Until 1P adds multiple keychain support (and it's one of the most-often requested features in the forums, so you know that Agile is hard at work on it), the best solution I've found is to use 1P for personal secrets and another password manager for shared secrets. I find that LastPass works well for this purpose, and that the two products complement each other quite nicely. If your set of shared secrets is fairly static and you'd prefer to avoid the learning curve involved in using two password managers in tandem, it may suffice to use 1Password's File > Export Selected > Encrypted Web Page function to create a password list and keep it in your shared Dropbox folder.



As an aside, if you need a sync service with more flexibility than Dropbox, I suggest taking a look at SugarSync and SpiderOak. Similar services, but each with different strengths. As with 1P and LastPass, the vendors see each other as competitors, and understandably so, but I find the products to be complementary and am happy to be able to use them all!

mexicotom

Yes I understand the issues as already noted. I think you are misunderstanding, we're not trying to have shared secrets. On the contrary, we're trying to have personal secrets, stored in a shared folder where we share non-secret information mostly.



I think my workaround should work. I have it all syncing separately and not clobbering anything in our shared dropbox.



However, when I go to sync from iOS with my new personal dropbox account, it claims it cannot find the 1Password keychain, even though I did create a .ws.agile.1Password.settings file in the root folder of my personal account providing the path to it: 1Password.agilekeychain (it's in the root). Perhaps there is some funky path for things that are shared.

brenty

Oh wow. "Convoluted" indeed! <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



While I would certainly not encourage anyone to do something like this, if you are comfortable with that, by all means -- it is your data after all, to do with it as you see fit. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



However, a word of caution: Be sure you have backups of your backups' backups! Dropbox is notoriously picky about even such a small thing as the capitalization of the folder name, and any misfortune that comes to pass will be sync'd to the rest of your systems by Dropbox.



While I cannot condone such madness, I would certainly love to hear about your experiences if you are so adventurous. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />





[quote name='mexicotom' timestamp='1304622803' post='26340']

What about this as a (convoluted <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> workaround:



1. Assuming if I move my 1Password file outside of the Dropbox folder, it will no longer set the .settings file in the root folder of Dropbox...



2. I store the keychain elsewhere on my Mac.



3. I set up a symlink somehow so that Dropbox will sync this 'remotely located file.'



4. I share the Dropbox folder that this symlink is in with my personal Dropbox account.



5. I manually create a .settings file in the root of my personal dropbox folder with the path to this shared keychain file.



6. I have 1Password login to my personal Dropbox rather than my business account...



It seems like that might work?

[/quote]

khad

Consider utilizing separate Dropbox accounts with separate data files and a shared folder for the data you actually want to share. I have seen some problems with symlinks; they are not recommended for Dropbox syncing.



[b]Hypothetical Dropbox Account[/b]

[list]



[*]1Password.agilekeychain

[*]Shared Folder

[list]



[*]Working Document

[*]Images galore

[*]Funny Things We are Sharing



[/list][*]Other Personal Stuff



[/list]

Please also take a look at [url="http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/2026-dropbox-sync-multiple-data-files/"]the thread in which sharing a Dropbox account has been exhaustively discussed[/url]. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

the_fellowship

Hi,



I'm fairly new to 1 Password and Dropbox, both are amazing products.



I wanted to ask the following question and get opinions on whether this would work or not:



I want to share my 1 Password keychain between multiple Mac's, each with their own separate Dropbox accounts i.e.



Home Mac: Home Dropbox Account

Work Mac: Work Dropbox Account



My plan was to share the 1Password folder on my Home Dropbox account with the Work Dropbox account, and then point 1 Password on the Work Mac to the shared 1Password Dropbox folder.



Would this cause any issues? For example, if both machines attempt to update the 1Password keychain at the same time



Thanks in advance for any help you can provide <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

khad

Welcome to the forums, the_fellowship!



What you describe is precisely what I prescribed in my post above. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



Dropbox will handle all the syncing for you and 1Password has a built-in Sync Conflict Resolver which will automatically alert you if there is ever a conflict. Dropbox works so fast that as long as you have an Internet connection all the time, you probably won't see any conflicts.



Go forth and prosper! Let me know if you run into any trouble.

alips

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1307701563' post='28870']

Welcome to the forums, the_fellowship!



What you describe it precisely what I prescribed in my post above. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



Dropbox will handle all the syncing for you and 1Password has a built-in Sync Conflict Resolver which will automatically alert you if there is ever a conflict. Dropbox works so fast that as long as you have an Internet connection all the time, you probably won't see any conflicts.



Go forth and prosper! Let me know if you run into any trouble.

[/quote]



But how can you do that? DropBox does not allow sharing of Application Folders.

khad

Welcome to the forums, alips!



[quote]But how can you do that? DropBox does not allow sharing of Application Folders.[/quote]

Your information is stored in a data file separate from the application. Store the data file in a shared Dropbox folder and you can use it across multiple Dropbox accounts. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



I hope that helps. Please let me know if you need any further assistance. I would be happy to provide it.



Cheers,

alips

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1309945090' post='31280']

Welcome to the forums, alips!





Your information is stored in a data file separate from the application. Store the data file in a shared Dropbox folder and you can use it across multiple Dropbox accounts. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



I hope that helps. Please let me know if you need any further assistance. I would be happy to provide it.



Cheers,

[/quote]



Seems to work fine. In order to enable synching with my iPad, I manually edited the settings file in the root directory. No problems so far - keeping fingers crossed...

khad

1Password for Mac will automatically update the "pointer" file ws.agile.1Password.settings in the root of your Dropbox folder when you double-click the data file in Finder to activate it in 1Password, so there should be no need to manually edit it. I'm glad things are working well, though! <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



Cheers,

Glenn Broadway

[quote name='mexicotom' timestamp='1304620886' post='26333']

At work where I have 1Password installed, we have a single Dropbox account that all of us at work sign into.

[/quote]



Surely you should each have your own Dropbox account and just have a shared, corporate folder within it? I honestly can't see why you would share a single dropbox account.

thightower

[quote name='Glenn Broadway' timestamp='1310048244' post='31367']

Surely you should each have your own Dropbox account and just have a shared, corporate folder within it? I honestly can't see why you would share a single dropbox account.

[/quote]







Usually this is done when an account it upgraded to a paid plan, so all users are not forced to pay for the update separately.



One account holding 50gb w/ 100 users sharing = 1payment



100 accounts holding 50 gb each = 100 payments



Just one example of why some have went this was.

benfdc

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1304718413' post='26457']

Consider utilizing separate Dropbox accounts with separate data files and a shared folder for the data you actually want to share. I have seen some problems with symlinks; they are not recommended for Dropbox syncing.

[/quote]

Or, if sharing a Dropbox account, consider using the "advanced" feature that allows one to choose which folders within the Dropbox folder get sync'd on any given device associated with the account. So, for example, you can sync ~/Dropbox/mexicotom/ to your computer, but exclude ~/Dropbox/canadajerry/. And canadajerry need not sync ~/Dropbox/mexicotom/ on his Mac. Note that canadajerry could still access your mexicotom/ folder on dropbox.com, so this approach would just provide convenience, not privacy.



—Ben F



p.s. Dropbox's simplicity is one of its greatest advantages over its rivals, and in most circumstances I would say that someone using these advanced settings might be better served by using, say, SugarSync rather than Dropbox. However, I gather that 1P uses some advanced syncing and locking features of the Dropbox API that aren't supported on rival services, so Dropbox is the safest choice for syncing a 1Password keychain. I'm sure that a moderator will step in and correct me here if I'm wrong!

[Deleted User]

Also, the Dropbox folks have recently rolled out [url="https://www.dropbox.com/teams"]'Dropbox for Teams'[/url] which lets you have a shared quota, starting at 350gb with 5 users. I don't think they ever intended a single Dropbox account to be used by multiple people so this is effectively there business plan, the pricing looks relatively reasonable if sharing data is critical to your needs.

benfdc

[quote name='stu' timestamp='1314911374' post='43885']

Also, the Dropbox folks have recently rolled out [url="https://www.dropbox.com/teams"]'Dropbox for Teams'[/url].

[/quote]

Interesting. Strikes me as perfectly awful, though.



If you're already using Dropbox for personal stuff, you either have to surrender ownership of your personal account to your employer or else you have to accept a separate team account and forfeit easy access to your personal Dropbox when you're in your work environment. (There are ways to run two Dropbox accounts in parallel, but I wouldn't call any of them "easy access.")



Belong to two organizations that each use Dropbox for Teams? Hoo-boy, you're in for a real good time.



I can have a Google Apps account at work without it mucking up my own personal Gmail and Google accounts, or even other Google Apps accounts. Not so Dropbox for Teams.



The big "problem" that Dropbox for Teams solves, and solves poorly, is that folders shared among team members only count once against the communal storage quota. Well, guess what? Folders shared through SugarSync ONLY count against the owner's storage quota. Need a big block of pooled storage? Just open a SugarSync account for the team and share its folders with your team members (who can open free accounts if they don't already have them, or can use existing accounts without worrying about the impact on the storage quotas of those accounts). Simple, clean, scalable, and entanglement between the business and the personal is minimal.



The way I see it, Dropbox is taking a problem with its pricing model and trying to leverage that problem into a new product that is fragile, inflexible, and makes its customers' lives more complicated. For a product whose principal selling point is simplicity, it looks pretty darned boneheaded to me.



I hope that when AgileBits comes up with its multiple keychain solution, it will be far better thought-through than Dropbox for Teams.

benfdc

Now that I think about it, the problems with juggling personal and team Dropbox accounts are very similar to the problems with juggling personal and team 1P keychains.



And there's also a degree of similarity between Google's somewhat-awkward-but-fundamentally-workable approach to using multiple Gmail and Google Apps accounts and the LastPass UI for managing multiple vaults (keychains).



Food for thought.

Ben

Thanks for the well thought out input Ben.

benfdc

Just read the 3.9 blog post. Ugh. If I'm reading it right, the only way to sync a keychain in 3.9 or greater is to put it in ~/Dropbox.



I guess I can live with that *if* it works irrespective of whether dropbox.app is installed and running. I can configure SugarSync or SpiderOak to sync any folder I please. But being forced to use dropbox.app to sync my 1P keychain would not make me a happy camper.



Your product page says that "the cloud is an option." Dropbox.com is not the cloud. It is one particular cloud service, with a tarnished reputation so far as security is concerned. You can argue about whether the company deserves its reputation or not, but reputation is always in the eye of the beholder.