Encryption and File Syncing

mAcElite

Hi there.



As an avid 1Password for every platform user, I purchased Knox some approx 12 months ago, in the expectation that it would become a 1Password for files....



Using Dropbox I'm trying to find applications that will encrypt only files rather than vaults, so they can be synced correctly.



Can we expect an evolution for Knox soon or should I be looking at alternatives to encrypt my dropbox files?



Thanks in advance

Paul.

khad

Hello Paul, thanks for asking about this.



Right now we are working on some great new developments for Knox. I can't say much more than that, but you should base your decisions on existing [i]products[/i] (not [i]promises[/i]) anyway. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



That said, there are several different approaches to encrypted file synchronization and one of the tricky parts is determining what sort of solution you are looking for. There is one approach which would essentially store nothing but a single monolithic vault inside your Dropbox folder, but this would require the entire thing to be uploaded every time a change was made in one file. (Not very practical from a bandwidth perspective.) It also means you can't read the files in that vault on any machine that is not also a Mac. The Dropbox app for iOS cannot read the encryption, likewise for Windows. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_sadsmile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-(' />



Another approach is to store only certain sensitive items in a vault which therefore speeds up syncing. If you change a file outside the vault, Dropbox only needs to update that file. Such a vault would also, by definition, be smaller than your entire Dropbox folder.



Both of the above solutions, unfortunately, are not ideal for syncing, though. They rely on the vault being closed for syncing to ensure data integrity. The vault should also not be accessed simultaneously from two different machines. This can be done but it requires a lot of mental cycles to not screw anything up.



The best possible approach may be to essentially store your Dropbox folder inside a vault so that the data on your computer is securely encrypted but Dropbox sees (and syncs) all the contents as usual. Thus you have the benefits of encryption on your local drive, but you can still access all the files in your Dropbox account in the mobile Dropbox apps and from a Windows machine as needed.



What do you think?

mAcElite

Hi khad



Thanks for the explanation, but I asked the question with that knowledge already :-/



Hence the reason for not yet finding a satisfactory solution as yet.



I was hoping that Knox would be expanded in true agile style, beyond the sparse bundles for syncing purposes, similar to the way 1password handles things.



I've looked at EncFS which does what I am looking for, but its far from a seamless experience with OSX.



Having Knox store files individually encrypted would allow the sync to take place correctly?



Also tried Espionage but that doesn't hit the mark either.



Regards

Paul.

khad

Paul,



Unfortunately, I don't know of an easy and seamless way to do what you are trying to accomplish at this time. If anyone else does, I hope they point it out to me. I too would like to use it. Syncing and encryption are often at odds with each other since the best encryption makes sure that no one has a clue what is inside the file(s) but the best syncing relies on such knowledge to perform delta syncing (syncing only the changes rather than the entire file). It is not a problem with a simple solution. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_worried.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':S' />



I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you right now, but your feedback is greatly appreciated. I will pass this along to the developers for consideration. They have been known to surprise us all. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

mAcElite

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1307703355' post='28878']

Paul,



Unfortunately, I don't know of an easy and seamless way to do what you are trying to accomplish at this time. If anyone else does, I hope they point it out to me. I too would like to use it. Syncing and encryption are often at odds with each other since the best encryption makes sure that no one has a clue what is inside the file(s) but the best syncing relies on such knowledge to perform delta syncing (syncing only the changes rather than the entire file). It is not a problem with a simple solution. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_worried.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':S' />



I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you right now, but your feedback is greatly appreciated. I will pass this along to the developers for consideration. They have been known to surprise us all. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

[/quote]



Ok thanks.



I think they would have a very popular product if they could make it happen <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



KR

Paul.

khad

Agreed. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_bigsmile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-D' />



Cheers,

ScatterbotsNY

I'll note that the documentation for Knox does not make a particularly convincing case for why someone would want to buy it.



However, it does seem to me that this could turn into something very very useful, particularly with some programming effort to make it work better with "cloud" services (such as Dropbox). The 1Password program has proved to be very useful to me over the last few years, so I thought I'd buy this as something of vote of confidence that I expect you can make it much more useful.



I'd say more about what I have in mind, but it'd probably be better for me to wait and see what you're already working on! <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[Deleted User]

ScatterbotsNY,



I agree that the documentation could use a full wash, wax and detailing. Luckily, that is exactly what is happening with all of AgileBits' user guides.



Not to make an excuse, but the pace has been fast and furious over the last couple of years, and being a small company, documentation was one of the areas to take a hit.



However, those days will soon be in the past, and please know that your opinion is shared among other members and the company alike.



Regardless, thanks for posting your comment. Polls aren't necessarily a good indicator of things, but frequent posts and feature requests are!



Cheers!



Brandt

ScatterbotsNY

I should add that I [b]do[/b] think it is already useful. I just meant to say that the documentation doesn't make much of a case for it. I also assume that's because you're working on a newer version, which is a reasonable thing for you to concentrate on!



(I also returned to add that I don't want to see Knox tied directly to Dropbox, just that it would be great if it worked better on services like Dropbox)



Thanks for the reply.

[Deleted User]

Believe me, I didn't take your comments in any way other than you meant them.



I find Knox useful too, but I wholeheartedly agree with you that the documentation needs a serious upgrade! <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



I'm guessing we are both on the same page regarding the current uses of Knox: we both find it has value, but we both wish it could do a little more to make it great.



If my guess is correct, then you are part of a big group. AgileBits' purchased the application from the original developer, so there have been some retooling requirements necessary.



However, as fate would have it, since Knox uses Apple's sparse bundle & image technology, wherever Apple goes, so goes Knox. If you've been following the latest WWDC feeds, I'm sure you are as excited as I am. Then again, perhaps getting overly excited by anything revealed at WWDC is a bit much! <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



As for Knox being tied to Dropbox, I don't think you need to worry too much about that. However, I wish mounted vaults and Dropbox played nicer too. We'll have to wait and see how the future of Knox progresses, but I have a feeling you'll be happy!



Cheers!



Brandt