Camino no longer supported in 3.6.0

DavidB · June 2011

<div class="IPBDescription">Please use 3.5.9 if you require Camino support.</div>I just noticed that in 1P 3.6.0 (build 31043) there is no long support for Camino? Is this permanent?

Thank you,

David

[Deleted User] · June 2011

Hi David,

I'm sorry for any confusion here, yes, Camino is no longer supported as of 1Password 3.6.0, we do mention this in the release notes here:

http://agilebits.com/products/1Password/versions/#v31043

Sadly, as much as Camino is a great browser, it's future is very uncertain as Mozilla have dropped support for the Gecko embedding technology Camino used and so it's unlikely that Camino will be able to continue with a up-to-date browser engine and as such we felt the time was right to remove support for this.

If you need Camino support, you'll need to stick with 1Password 3.5.9 which will always be available from our 'Legacy Versions' page here:

http://help.agilebits.com/1Password3/legacy_versions.html

Hope that clears things up,

DavidB · June 2011

[quote name='stu' timestamp='1308687553' post='29814']

If you need Camino support, you'll need to stick with 1Password 3.5.9 which will always be available from our 'Legacy Versions' page here:

http://help.agilebits.com/1Password3/legacy_versions.html

Hope that clears things up,

[/quote]

Thank you for the explanation--I thought that was probably the case.

If I decide to reinstall 3.5.9, can I just delete 3.6 from Applications and drop in 3.5.9?

David

[Deleted User] · June 2011

[quote name='DavidB' timestamp='1308693014' post='29835']

Thank you for the explanation--I thought that was probably the case.

If I decide to reinstall 3.5.9, can I just delete 3.6 from Applications and drop in 3.5.9?

David

[/quote]

Hey David,

If you wish to reinstall 3.5.9, you can drag your 3.6.0 icon to the trash, or you can drag the 3.5.9 icon to the Applications folder and it will overwrite your 3.6.0 installation. The choice is yours.

Let us know if you encounter any problems with the procedure.

Brandt

DavidB · June 2011

[quote name='bswins' timestamp='1308695101' post='29842']

If you wish to reinstall 3.5.9, you can drag your 3.6.0 icon to the trash, or you can drag the 3.5.9 icon to the Applications folder and it will overwrite your 3.6.0 installation.

[/quote]

Thanks--I deleted 3.6.0 and added 3.5.9 with no problem.

David

[Deleted User] · June 2011

Thanks for letting us know. I'm glad it went without incident.

nodis · June 2011

I just wanted to chime in an add my disappointment that Camino support has been dropped as of version 3.6, particularly as much more obscure browsers are still supported. I use Camino as my go-to Mozilla flavored browser when I need to use certain (usually older design) Websites that don't play well with Webkit.

I would have preferred that you wait longer and drop Camino support only down the road if the browser really does whither and die. As of today, Camino is still very good.

Anyway, back to 1Password 3.5.9 for me...

Paul

jwthomas · June 2011

I too just discovered that Camino had been dropped in the newest 1P version. I understand your explanation but not why you decided to drop it well before what you were expecting came to pass. I'll try using the Legacy version, which will also have to work on Safari and Firefox which I use for backup.

khad · June 2011

Please keep in mind that in one sense nothing has been removed/taken away. 1Password 3.5.9 does and [b]will always[/b] support Camino 2.0. Several components of 1Password have been replaced by newer ones. Just as Lion support replaces Leopard support as a feature in 1Password 3.6.0, more rapid development for actively maintained browsers is the feature that is replacing Camino support in 3.6.0. By all means, please continue to use 1Password 3.5.9 if you require support for Camino. We have a number of users still using 1Password 2.12.1 because they require Tiger support. It still works great for their needs.

I'm sorry if I couldn't give you the exact answer you were looking for, but I hope that helps. It's never an easy call to make. (There were some heated discussions in the beta forums about this.) However, we felt that the time was right to move forward with browser support.

Thanks for letting us know what you think. This really does get shared with the rest of the team and helps us make decisions like this in the future.

DavidB · June 2011

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1308738255' post='29924']

. . . we felt that the time was right to move forward with browser support.

[/quote]

I understand the decision but the problem is that although 3.5.9 supports Camino, it doesn't support Firefox 5. (Some of us use more than one browser.)

David

khad · June 2011

I'll put you down for a vote for [url="http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/5227-feature-request-firefox-5-support-in-leopard/"]Firefox 5 support in 3.5.x[/url]. Our Leopard users are asking about this as well. I don't have a time frame for when or if it will happen, though. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_worried.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':S' />

[Deleted User] · June 2011

[quote name='DavidB' timestamp='1308769175' post='30004']

I understand the decision but the problem is that although 3.5.9 supports Camino, it doesn't support Firefox 5. (Some of us use more than one browser.)[/quote]

David,

To add to Khad's response, I'd like to offer the following workaround, albeit not an optimal one: [url="http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/4984-two-versions-of-1pw-on-one-computer/page__view__findpost__p__28507"]Two versions of 1PW on one computer[/url]

I have 3.5.9 and 3.6.0 installed on my Snow Leopard iMac, and I use both for troubleshooting issues and for using browsers not supported in 3.6.0. I've yet to experience a problem, but please heed Khad's words.

Just wanted to offer a way for you to have both Camino and Firefox 5. Probably not what you were hoping to hear, but it's better than nothing!

Cheers!

Brandt

DavidB · June 2011

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1308794887' post='30075']

I'll put you down for a vote for [url="http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/5227-feature-request-firefox-5-support-in-leopard/"]Firefox 5 support in 3.5.x[/url]. Our Leopard users are asking about this as well.

[/quote]

Thank you--sounds great. (Although of course since 3.5 will not be usable with OS X 10.7, for many of us all of this will soon be moot anyway.)

David

DavidB · June 2011

[quote name='bswins' timestamp='1308795152' post='30076']

To add to Khad's response, I'd like to offer the following workaround, albeit not an optimal one: [url="http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/4984-two-versions-of-1pw-on-one-computer/page__view__findpost__p__28507"]Two versions of 1PW on one computer[/url]

I have 3.5.9 and 3.6.0 installed on my Snow Leopard iMac, and I use both for troubleshooting issues and for using browsers not supported in 3.6.0. I've yet to experience a problem, but please heed Khad's words.

[/quote]

Thank you for the tip, which I will follow--at least until I install OS X 10.7, which will render 3.5.9 unusable.

David

khad · June 2011

[quote]Thank you--sounds great. (Although of course since 3.5 will not be usable with OS X 10.7, for many of us all of this will soon be moot anyway.)[/quote]

You are most welcome, David! And you are correct: Lion will resolve the problem very soon for many users. We do encourage everyone to stay up to date with their OS since that is also a good security practice. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

Cheers,

IanGMT · June 2011

Hi Khad

Lost the 1P icon in Camino, after an upgrade of one or t'other. The fireFox browser exten is ticked and Safari is fine.

Thanks if you can of anything to try, Ian

[Deleted User] · June 2011

Hello IanGMT and welcome to the Forums!

I merged your topic with the appropriate thread.

You did not specifically state which version of 1Password you upgraded to, but from your description of FF being ticked, I presume you upgraded to 3.6.0 or 3.6.1. If I am incorrect, please let me know.

If you have upgraded, the reason you lost your 1P icon is that Camino is no longer supported in 3.6.x. However, you may continue to use 1P 3.5.9 for Camion browser integration.

Please refer to Khad's earlier post: [url="http://forum.agile.ws/index.php?/topic/5224-camino-no-longer-supported-in-360/page__view__findpost__p__29924"]3.5.9 supports Camino[/url]

I'm sorry my answer is probably not what you wanted to hear, but know that will be able to continue using Camino and 1P if you chose.

Cheers!

Brandt

Bugsy · July 2011

I must also add my disappointment to your decision to drop Camino support. It would seem that the few lines of code needed to support it would not be a major undertaking.

I, too, had to return to the previous version. I have used it religiously for my two Macs, iPad, and iPhone via DropBox.

Tough for me to recommend you to our User Group members if you drop support for browsers with no warning after having supported for so long.

"Disappointment with your company"...enough said.

DavidB · July 2011

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1308963356' post='30273']

And you are correct: Lion will resolve the problem very soon for many users.

[/quote]

Just to clarify what I meant:

This will soon all be moot and the problem "resolved" only because 3.5.9 will not be able to be used with 10.7, which means that Camino will not be able to be used either.

Killing the patient makes it no longer necessary to find a cure for his illness, but it doesn't help the patient very much.

David

khad · July 2011

[quote name='Bugsy' timestamp='1309544846' post='30848']

I, too, had to return to the previous version.

[/quote]

Welcome to the forums, Bugsy. I completely understand your perspective, but perhaps it is better to look at it as "sticking with the version that works for your needs". There is no need to use 1Password 3.6 if 3.5 continues to suit your needs. We even still support Tiger users. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

[quote name='DavidB' timestamp='1309546216' post='30852']This will soon all be moot and the problem "resolved" only because 3.5.9 will not be able to be used with 10.7, which means that Camino will not be able to be used either.[/quote]

David, I just thought you meant that people were going to begin being concerned that their browser wasn't going to be updated with security fixes so they would upgrade not only their OS but also their browser. Sorry if I misunderstood. Unfortunately, Apple also removed Scripting Additions from Lion which was the way in which we integrated with browsers pre-Lion. Without a native extension APIs in Camino, Lion would have been the end of the road anyway. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_worried.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':S' />

I wish I had a better answer, but I hope this shows that we are continuing to support Camino as long as possible. We still support it in pre-Lion and will always, but some changes Apple made in Lion made it essentially impossible to support it in Lion regardless of how much we might have wanted to. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_sadsmile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-(' />

Please do keep in mind that Camino is still just as supported as it was a few weeks ago. Nothing has changed in this regard. If you have any trouble getting it working in Tiger, Leopard, or Snow Leopard, please let me know! I would be happy to help.

Cheers,

Foliovision · July 2011

Disabling Camino for no particularly good reason annoys me enough to register.

I own and influence over 20 1password licenses on Mac and Windows as well as know and all the rest of it.

You are making my workflow much worse. Camino is a browser with which I need password integration. Plus I need latest Firefox.

This is really poor work.

You are trying to be trendy like Apple, disabling technologies.

You are not Apple, trendsetting, you're a utility company serving a diverse group of customers.

Perhaps you should have asked us first.

We are looking hard at moving everything over to LastPass. LastPass seem to care a great deal more about users' convenience.

[Deleted User] · July 2011

Hi Foliovision,

I'm really sorry to hear you're disappointed in our decision to remove Camino support. It's not one we took lightly and certainly not a decision based on being trendy, we don't just remove features 'for the fun' of it and we do care greatly about all of our users.

To reiterate what has already been said, we made the difficult decision to remove the Camino extension going forward because of several reasons. First, the future of Camino is uncertain, as can be seen on the Camino blog (http://caminohttp://caminobrowser.org/blog/):

"Beyond that, the future is unclear. As a purely community-based open source project, no one is employed to work on Camino; all Camino developers are volunteers, working on Camino in their spare time, as a labor of love. While maintaining embedding in a fork of Gecko is theoretically possible, we don’t have the manpower for a sustained effort of that kind."

In addition to this, Apple has made some changes in OS X 10.7 (Lion) that will prevent 1Password from supporting Camino at all. These issues combined with other technical issues caused us to make the hard decision to remove the Camino extension completely.

Not only is Camino's future development uncertain, but the niche it once filled is getting smaller. Camino was the bee's knees when Safari was not very powerful and Firefox was not very Mac-like, but the landscape has changed significantly since then. Firefox has gotten more Mac-like and Safari and Chrome have added more power and stability, so between the two, Camino users should be able to find a comfortable home with one of those other browsers.

If you'd still like to use Camino and 1Password together, you can downgrade to 1Password 3.5 (note: 3.5 is not compatible with OS X 10.7 Lion). Please see this help guide for more details:

http://help.agilebits.com/1Password3/legacy_versions.html

I'm sorry if our removal of Camino means you'll be moving to another solution, we'd hate to see you go, but I hope the above helps to explain our reasoning.

[quote name='Foliovision' timestamp='1309787994' post='31146']

Disabling Camino for no particularly good reason annoys me enough to register.

I own and influence over 20 1password licenses on Mac and Windows as well as know and all the rest of it.

You are making my workflow much worse. Camino is a browser with which I need password integration. Plus I need latest Firefox.

This is really poor work.

You are trying to be trendy like Apple, disabling technologies.

You are not Apple, trendsetting, you're a utility company serving a diverse group of customers.

Perhaps you should have asked us first.

We are looking hard at moving everything over to LastPass. LastPass seem to care a great deal more about users' convenience.

[/quote]

DavidB · July 2011

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1309592071' post='30891']

Welcome to the forums, Bugsy.

[/quote]

Just for the record, the quote referred to in your message is from me, not Bugsy.

David

khad · July 2011

I was replying to Bugsy in the first paragraph of my post which is why I welcomed Bugsy to the forums with a direct address in my opening sentence.

I only began replying to the quote of yours [i]beneath[/i] the quote, but I am glad you are here as well! <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

I could have been more explicit about that by also quoting Bugsy in my reply, but since I was replying to Bugsy's post in its entirety, I didn't feel the need to quote it all. I also thought it was clear enough from the direct address in the sentence, but I will edit the post to make it more explicit. Sorry for the blended [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style"]posting style[/url]. I regret the error.

DavidB · July 2011

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1309928577' post='31247']

I was replying to Bugsy in the first paragraph of my post which is why I welcomed Bugsy to the forums with a direct address in my opening sentence.

I only began replying to the quote of yours [i]beneath[/i] the quote, but I am glad you are here as well! <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

I could have been more explicit about that by also quoting Bugsy in my reply, but since I was replying to Bugsy's post in its entirety, I didn't feel the need to quote it all. I also thought it was clear enough from the direct address in the sentence, but I will edit the post to make it more explicit. Sorry for the blended [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style"]posting style[/url]. I regret the error.

[/quote]

No problem--thank you for your edits. I continue to be impressed by the extremely high degree of thoughtfulness, consideration and conscientiousness of this forum's moderators.

David

khad · July 2011

Aw, shucks. You're going to make me blush. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_blush.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':oops:' />

Thank you so much for your kind words. It really means to the world to us.

JayBe · July 2011

Sorry to revive this in light of all of the Safari extension threads. I'm rolling back to 3.5.13 so I can get Camino support. 1Password in Safari is cumbersome (and missing things it once had) and combined with some odd Safari weirdness I'm really to gouge my own eyes out.

Since 3.5.9 won't work in Lion due to Scripting Additions being removed I may end up staying on 10.6 for a good long while until I either find a browser that works (and works well with 1Password...no not Chrome or Firefox) or a password application that isn't getting in my way like 1P is right now.

Lion is nice and fast, I have it on one laptop as a test, but Apple's capriciousness with Scripting Additions kind of makes me want to install Windows 7 on my machines. Kind of. Bottom line is I just want to do my work and not struggle with the software I use. Apple is making the former more difficult by inducing the latter.

Thanks for the support.

khad · July 2011

Thanks for the feedback, JayBe. I don't think any of us like struggling with software. In the short week since Lion was released things have progressed very rapidly in Safari 5.1. Take your time, though. We'll be ready for you when you decide to upgrade. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

JayBe · July 2011

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1311895971' post='34800']

Thanks for the feedback, JayBe. I don't think any of us like struggling with software. In the short week since Lion was released things have progressed very rapidly in Safari 5.1. Take your time, though. We'll be ready for you when you decide to upgrade. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

[/quote]

Actually I'm removing 1Password and Knox. I've had enough with the frustration Agile has caused me this week (yes, Agile, not Apple as I'm on 10.6). I found a usable workaround by using the Webkit nightlies in 10.6 that gives me the "old" method and posted that here as a workaround for those of us struggling with 10.6 and see that it's been removed. Agile can hide behind the "removal of Scripting Additions from Safari in Lion" being the cause but that doesn't affect 10.6 (or WebKit wouldn't work either) and so the change being forced on 10.6 users is at Agile's discretion, not Apple's. Coupled with the removal of support for Camino, I'm done. Both 1P and Knox will be removed. There are alternate solutions that are just as seamless as 1Password is today with this crappy extension business. Perhaps they are not all in one but I don't have to put up with arbitrary decisions that screw customers either. I find the whole way both changes were foisted on us as shabby. You use email blasts for special offers and could've used it to warn us ahead of time that these changes were coming.

Buh bye! Feel free to remove this post too.

khad · August 2011

We don't remove dissenting posts, JayBe. You are entitled you your opinions and we respect them. We will just work that much harder to make 1Password your choice in the future.

If you have specific feature requests or problem, please let us know. We will also work to communicate more effectively while still refraining from "spamming" our users. It is a tricky balance, and I'm sorry if you feel we have failed by not sending more email to our newsletter subscribers.

We are sad to see you go. We are always here if you ever change your mind or need any further assistance.

Best regards,

Camino no longer supported in 3.6.0

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