App doesn't appear and vaults don't have passwords, does Knox work?

jmargolese

I'm trying Knox and I must be doing something wrong. I launched the app, it prompted me to create a vault with a password, which I did. I can now open and close that vault without ever being asked for a password. (Rebooted to be sure nothing was cached.) I double click on the Knox.app file in my Applications folder and nothing happens. No UI, nothing in the cmd-Tab list, nothing in the force quit applications.



I presume there is some sort of trick. Otherwise this seems like a poorly written shell for Disk Utility that doesn't even work. What am I missing?



(I have used DU to create encrypted sparse images so I do know how they should behave and I am not seeing that behavior with Know.)



thanks.

fmcypriano

Seems like you've saved the password on system keychain. Check Keychain.app (not sure if it's the correct english name) if there's a password for your knox vault, if it's there just delete it and try again.

jmargolese

Yes, I did store it in KeyChain, expecting that it would store a password as on browsers where you still have to approve it. But the Knox.app program still doesn't launch when I double click it. It appears to launch, but nothing happens and it's not listed as a running app.

Nik

Welcome to the forums, Joel. Knox's application icon is displayed, by default, in your menu bar. If it's not visible, it may be that you have too many icons in your menu bar. Menu bar applications don't appear when you cmd-tab to switch applications. It sounds like that's where the confusion's coming from. Please have a look and let us know.

jmargolese

Yep, I did find it after a while (before your reply). Then I went back to the web-site to see how I'd missed something so obvious. And, yes, if you look closely at the top graphic on the only Knox page you'll see that it's on the tool bar. Most apps pop up a dialog when they first start alerting the user to their location.



FWIW, Knox is a nice little wrapper to Disk Utility, but it's primitive (and dangerous) backup system makes it not useful for real security for documents that are actually in use.

macpug

We do have the information about Knox being in the menu bar, along with a lot of other helpful information, in the User Guide and on the website. While Knox starts in the menu bar, you can change its location to the dock via the preferences -- which I did immediately! I have way too much stuff in my menu bar and I could never see it ;). We have just taken over development of Knox and have some exciting things planned for it. Feel free to chime in and tell us anything you would like to see that would make Knox a more valuable app for you.

jmargolese

It's not a big deal, I've figured it out and in fact now that you've told me there is a user's guide I was able to find it, on my 3rd try, subtly placed on the Knox page, not on the download or the support site (which doesn't even mention the product, nor do your links on your signature).



My suggestions:

a) When it starts it should tell you how to use it, proactively. Any (simple) software that requires me to find and read a user's guide these days is poorly conceived. (I design software, I'd be embarrassed to tell a user to RTFM.)

b) Knox needs to find a way to interact with Spotlight and other backup utilities (Carbonite, Crashplan etc). It is beyond absurd to put your most valuable files into

a mode where they can't easily be backed up.

c) Knox's backup is primitive and dangerous. If I open a file and walk away before the backup starts, I run the risk of it being damaged. These are my most important files!

d) Knox's backup is intrusive. No other backup system these days asks me permission to run or gets in my way.

e) When you create a vault, Knox offers to save the password in the keyChain. I presumed that was a backup the way 1Password does. Rather it just automatically

mounts the vault which defeats all the security, again with no warning.

f) Of course without 1Password integration the product is very difficult to use since opening a vault with a strong password is a pain.

g) For me, the $18 sale price (Daring Fireball) is the right price for the product, but I won't buy it now because of these deficiencies. I doubt I

personally would pay $35 for it unless you could solve all these problems.



I'm sure you can make it more useful and actually support it, but I am disappointed in Agile for releasing a half-baked product that runs the real risk of burning people by not properly backing up their most valuable data.

macpug

joelm, thank you for your very well-thought out suggestions. First of all, I apologize if it sounded like I was telling you to RTFM. I hate that myself and would not intentionally do that...I was just trying to say that the information was there, but on looking back at it, that is exactly how it sounded. I likely won't be able to do this justcie, but I'm going to have a go at some of your suggestions.



You'll be pleased to know I have already updated my signature to include the Knox UG link ;) I am also requesting that we add Knox to the Support page (I think this is already in the works, but I will be sure). I was going to ask that the UG be moved, but when I looked at our other pages, all our UGs are in the same place, on the right side above the main frame on each product page. I will tell you that we have been revamping a lot of our website to make things easier for our users, and in doing so you might occasionally run across a 404/page not found or other things that are seemingly out of place. We'd appreciate anyone letting us know about those. We do test the links, but sometimes one slips past us.



We have already been discussing a number of your suggestions, particularly the way Knox is initially downloaded, setup, and "stored" initially on the menu bar. It took me way too long to figure out that my menu bar was clipping Knox, so I am extremely understanding of that particular issue. Personally, I would rather it start in the dock with the preference to move it to the menu bar. But that's just me. And nearly everyone else who has written in ;)



Integration with 1P, obviously, and some other apps, are very high on the priority list. We are seeking feedback from users to see what ideas they have about this to see what types of integration they would like to have. Integration with backup utilities is an interesting idea. I understand your concerns about backups, and hope we'll be able to address these issues for you soon.



I appreciate your insight into the pricing as well. That is such a subjective topic. Some folks will pay $100 for an incredible application while others won't pay $5. As a developer, you know that goes. We will try to have an attractive, competitive price point to convey a sense of value, while simultaneously showing that it is a premium application, worthy of your software dollars.



I've tried to address your primary concerns as best I can at the moment. If you have further questions or concerns, please let us know.

jmargolese

Pricing is of course a challenge, and I've paid a lot more than $100 for apps. But they need to fill a specific purpose and solve a key item. I'm sure many people would find Knox a bargain at $35. As a casual user who uses different (perhaps less secure) ways to protect his data, Knox falls into the 'nice to have' but not essential category. I don't claim that I represent everyone, or even a majority of potential users, just me. I would value 1Password higher since I interact with it all the time, though I am pretty sure I'm only using about 10% of it's features since I can't be bothered to read the manual and figure out what else is in there. Again, that's just me.

macpug

[quote name='joelm@minutepoll.com'] I would value 1Password higher since I interact with it all the time, though I am pretty sure I'm only using about 10% of it's features since I can't be bothered to read the manual and figure out what else is in there. Again, that's just me.[/QUOTE]



I certainly understand not having time! Let me point you toward a wonderful resource. Don McAllister did a recent [URL="http://www.screencastsonline.com/index_files/SCO0246-1password3.php"]screencast of 1Password[/URL]. It's about a 30 minute overview of 1Password, full of features, tips, and tricks that would probably help you quite a bit. If you click on the link, you can read the overview, then scroll down a bit and you'll see where it says "To View the Full Free Show"...then you can select either "Free Hi-Def version of the show in iTunes" (to watch it on your Mac) or "Free iPod version of the show in iTunes" (to watch it on -- you guessed it! your iPod). So, watch the show, and learn how to get the most out of 1Password. Let us know what you think about it...Personally, I have learned SO much from his screencasts that I consider them required viewing. ;)

jmargolese

I'm sure it's great. But 30 minutes? Not going to happen. Maybe if there were 10 3-minute podcasts setup by topic... Thanks for trying.