Thoughtful feedback on the new extension

BermudaAl

You guys have screwed up big time by not being ready for Lion. It doesn't help that you put on the happy face attitude when you know you have a big problem. I think you run the risk of losing much of your user base. It takes a long time to build a reputation as a quality product but a short time to lose it. If I was a new customer, I would have trashed this in 2 minutes and never come back.



But I'm a long time user and I hope you can get back to the way it was. As many others commented, 1Password used to be a tremendous productivity enhancer. Now it's a time waster.



Somehow, your design team has gotten the idea that we all love to have 1Password clogging up our screen real estate. The bloated window that is the 1Password application is bad enough. But I can live with that as I rarely use it once things are setup - I just deal with the button in the menu bar or contextual menus. But now those are gone. The new extension window is awful - very intrusive and far too complex to use. 1Password is at it's best when you don't even notice it's there.



The loss of folders is disaster #2. Folders are a must for power users with hundreds of passwords.



Without contextual menus and folders 1Password is of no value to me. If they are not coming back, I'm moving to a different workflow.



Please no more smoke blowing about the wonders of your new extension or how people love it. The number of strongly negative comments here in the last few days is extraordinary. Your users don't love it. They hate it.



Please give us some specifics about what you are going to implement and your best guess as to when it will be done. I know you are working on it. I know it's hard. Please respect the fact that I have work to do as well. I don't want to have to keep checking this website. Nor is the "extension updating automatically" as I am not using it, Lion or Safari 5.1 pending the result of what you a few other developers with similar issues do.



Thank you.



-al-

khad

Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback, Al. I know you wouldn't have spent your time doing this if you were not passionate about 1Password like we are.



Apple made some changes late in the development of Safari 5.1 and Lion that required us to scrap five years of code and begin fresh. Things obviously where you (or we) want them to be, but we are only human and are working as hard as we can. Most of us have hardly slept in weeks. If we could work any faster, we definitely would.



The two issues you mention are addressed in the User Guide. We know about them and are firing on all cylinders. Many applications are not even compatible with Lion yet. Under the circumstance, we thought it would be better to provide some support for Lion rather than none. The rest of the functionality will be coming in time. Due to these technical changes it is impossible to use the old code in Lion.



Please take a look at [url="http://blog.agilebits.com/2011/07/big-safari-extension-updates-and-a-sneak-peek/"]our latest blog post[/url] which explains some of the improvements we have made in the multiple updates we have pushed out over the past few days as well as a sneak peek at the new UI design we are working on.



If we can be of further assistance, please let us know.



We are always here to help!

kbolin

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1311651739' post='34024']



Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback, Al. I know you wouldn't have spent your time doing this if you were not passionate about 1Password like we are.



[/quote]



I'm also with Al and very frustrated and angry. Not only have I used 1Password for some time now and have almost 100 passwords in use and currently find the solution useless BUT I recently have recommended 1Password to several colleagues over the past couple of months in more recent business travels. Now I'm embarrased to have recommended a product that simply doesn't work and is on the verge of being totally useless. The "1P" button and interface in Safari is now a cluttered mess for me and using the 1Password app to get access to my sites simply doesn't work to transfer the password info over and launch the site.



[quote name='khad' timestamp='1311651739' post='34024']



If we can be of further assistance, please let us know.



We are always here to help!

[/quote]



Simple... make it work and soon. I have 2 Macs, and iPad & iPhone that I use with 1Password and getting ready to toss it out. I'm frustrated but don't really want to look for another solution... yet.

Oxon

A lot of negative comments and frustration from users, which is understandable. However, the latest release (beta I think) has improved things enormously.



As far as the new interface is concerned - well I like it! I'm sure many others do as well (more so probably when it's tweaked a bit) but the silent majority of satisfied users generally don't post to say that they are satisfied. I think it would be dangerous for Agile to be "bullied" into reverting to the old interface because of a minority of vociferous users.



There are some contributors who obviously don't understand the problems the developers have had thrust upon them at a late stage, through no fault of their own. There are ways of making one's dissatisfaction known and being rude and insulting isn't one of them (or should that be two?) and shows a certain immaturity. Courtesy doesn't cost anything. (I'm not referring to contributors to this thread, but more generally).



(Finally - No, I have no connection with Agile whatsoever!!)

khad

Thank you for the kind words, Oxon. I have shared them with the rest of the time as motivation to keep working at this breakneck pace. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



[quote name='kbolin' timestamp='1311659578' post='34042']

make it work and soon.[/quote]

Okay.

Jonathan_YOW

I would tend to agree with the comments posted. For me the value of the previous version of 1 Password was its incredible usefulness but unobtrusiveness - hitting cmd/ and having a few pertinent passwords pop up wherever my cursor was placed in the browser window - and similarly hitting the browser button and being able to access data, again with an unobtrusive interface. Being able to at least reduce the font size would be helpful - or ideally revert to the previous flow and layout.

charlie98

I am sympathetic to the issues that AgileBits is facing with Lion and Safari. Having said that I am interested in getting work done, not with researching how tools such as 1Password work.



To that end I now mainly use a combination of FireFox 5 and Quicksilver for websites that require logins. I can, via Quicksilver, find the login info for all my 1PW logins, and can choose to open that login in whatever browser I choose (FF at the moment which is not my default browser). Fill and submit seems to mainly work in FF.



Reading the Safari extension changelog it seems that you need to use a 1PW beta. Again, I'm not interested in beta software, I have other things to do with my precious time. What I am looking for is a consistent interface across multiple browsers that saves me time and effort. Once upon a time that interface was 1PW, I can only hope that we get back to that state ASAP.

A User

I have to say I've been watching/reading and I am happy about the changes that have been going on lately. I'm thankful that the 1password/agile team has been listening to users' feedback and are working hard to make changes.



With these new changes, sites I used to not be able to log into with the 1P extension are now working; In addition, I'm actually finding it kind of easy to hit CMD+/ (I changed it) to fill a login form on a site, even though I do miss the dropdown menu.



Things still aren't perfect, like not having the ability to say "never for this site" and how 1P seems to randomly want me to save my login details (i've turned off autosave in the 1P preferences as well as Safari but it's still acting up), and earlier today I logged into the extension and it said "no data".



It seems like patience will be a virtue as the 1Password team work hard to bring back old functionalities and make the design better (it's pretty, but unusable to the point of making me cringe). I liked what I saw in the latest blog post from Sunday - and about that, anyone who works on a Sunday deserves some karma. It's a good thing, too, because I was a few hours away from deleting 1Password and moving to LP <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

Examinus

[quote name='kbolin' timestamp='1311659578' post='34042']

I'm also with Al and very frustrated and angry. Not only have I used 1Password for some time now and have almost 100 passwords in use and currently find the solution useless BUT I recently have recommended 1Password to several colleagues over the past couple of months in more recent business travels. Now I'm embarrased to have recommended a product that simply doesn't work and is on the verge of being totally useless. The "1P" button and interface in Safari is now a cluttered mess for me and using the 1Password app to get access to my sites simply doesn't work to transfer the password info over and launch the site.







Simple... make it work and soon. I have 2 Macs, and iPad & iPhone that I use with 1Password and getting ready to toss it out. I'm frustrated but don't really want to look for another solution... yet.

[/quote]



Would you have been less embarrassed if they provided no support at all? That's the only other option.

kbolin

[quote name='Examinus' timestamp='1311692638' post='34186']

Would you have been less embarrassed if they provided no support at all? That's the only other option.

[/quote]



My point is I raved about the product to my colleagues and just how secure I feel with strong password generation and ease of use for login access. Now they use the product and think I must be out of my mind.



Perhaps saying "1Password currently does not support Safari 5.1" would have been better than attempting and repeatedly failing. I'm back running Safari 5.0 for the moment and will wait until 1Password is stable again.



I'm fully sympathetic of the software development community. As a former owner of government solutions ERP system I'm fully aware of the challenges software developers encounter. However it does seem the challenges with 1Password could have been avoided until the product was fully ready rather than us being the "Quality Assurance & Testing" team.



I'll hang in there and support the team... they just need to know there are very frustated users out here.



Kelly

Tadd Peake

I'm not angry; I'm panicked!



I registered at my new stock broker account and couldn't save the login, the password, the security questions. Nada. I clicked Save in the popup. I opened 1Password to make sure everything was there. It was nowhere to be found.



Where is the button to copy the generated password to the clipboard?



Where is the ability to name a login?



Where is the ability to open 1Password from the plugin popup?



It's like I'm flying blind.



Sorry, guys. I don't have time to read a lengthly explanation of the changes in software that I've used happily for many years.



I was going to buy 1password for all my friends for Christmas, but there is no way if I can't use it myself. If there are Lion issues, you should let users know what they are while waiting for the update to load, or something.





I do like the larger logins for sites. Very handy.

Tadd Peake

Did I somehow get a 1Password version from an alternate universe? The new plugin doesn't match any of the help files or online documentation.



Is there any way I can go back to an older version? As much as I prefer Safari, I'll switch browsers if you'll give me back something I can figure out how to use.

kaizee

I just registrated to say I'm feeling the same:

I'm dissatisfied!





I liked(!) the usability of the "1P" Button and now it's gone!

(although you explained there are no possibilities at the moment to rebuild it (really?!) because of Apple's changes to 3rd Application rights or something like that.)





Using 1P since 2008 and I'm really nearby saying goodbye to 1Password and work on with alternative applications.



Furthermore, I'm also frustrated that I recommended it to my friends and family.



I will do the opposite in a few days if you (AgileBits) stay at your new design.



That's the law of the market that won't stop in front of AgileBits' gates!

(please just read through the forum and listen what your customers say!)





Kind regards from Germany,

Kai

Examinus

[quote name='kbolin' timestamp='1311698785' post='34207']

My point is I raved about the product to my colleagues and just how secure I feel with strong password generation and ease of use for login access. Now they use the product and think I must be out of my mind.



Perhaps saying "1Password currently does not support Safari 5.1" would have been better than attempting and repeatedly failing. I'm back running Safari 5.0 for the moment and will wait until 1Password is stable again.



I'm fully sympathetic of the software development community. As a former owner of government solutions ERP system I'm fully aware of the challenges software developers encounter. However it does seem the challenges with 1Password could have been avoided until the product was fully ready rather than us being the "Quality Assurance & Testing" team.



I'll hang in there and support the team... they just need to know there are very frustated users out here.



Kelly

[/quote]



I very much doubt you'd be saying that if there was indeed no support for 5.1 at all.

tommy

On my first try, I was startled. I don't particularily care for the interface but I have had no trouble working in Safari 5.1 and Firefox 5.0.1

Someone said Folders are gone. Mine are there.

Same great program.

Thanks, guys

webjive

I agree with everyone on the changes to 1P and somehow trying to emulate the older look and feel. If I wanted to have the limited functionality of the Chrome version vs the prior Safari version, I would have switched to Chrome. Chrome is flat out ugly and doesn't even feel like a Mac app so, why dumb down the Safari extension?



As for Firefox, FF5 and FF6 crashes continually on Lion when you have some extensions enabled like Firebug and others. There are LOTS of complaints about FF5/6 and Lion compatibility right now in the FF forums.



I actually switched to LastPass until 1P gets all this sorted out. LastPass is kludgy but, it's providing a stop-gap solution until the dust settles and has a lot of the missing features 1P used to have like replacing logins, ignoring a site/domain so you don't continually get the drop down, etc.

khad

[quote name='Jonathan_YOW' timestamp='1311685268' post='34158']

I would tend to agree with the comments posted. For me the value of the previous version of 1 Password was its incredible usefulness but unobtrusiveness - hitting cmd/ and having a few pertinent passwords pop up wherever my cursor was placed in the browser window - and similarly hitting the browser button and being able to access data, again with an unobtrusive interface. Being able to at least reduce the font size would be helpful - or ideally revert to the previous flow and layout.

[/quote]

We are working on a new interface, but it is not technically possible to provide the old one any more. The Scripting Additions that we had previously used are no longer available. Apple has removed them. It is not possible to use any of the previous code. That said, we are cranking out many updates lately. [url="http://blog.agilebits.com/"]Check out our most recent two blog posts for more details.[/url]

khad

[quote name='charlie98' timestamp='1311687441' post='34166']

I am sympathetic to the issues that AgileBits is facing with Lion and Safari. Having said that I am interested in getting work done, not with researching how tools such as 1Password work.



To that end I now mainly use a combination of FireFox 5 and Quicksilver for websites that require logins. I can, via Quicksilver, find the login info for all my 1PW logins, and can choose to open that login in whatever browser I choose (FF at the moment which is not my default browser). Fill and submit seems to mainly work in FF.



Reading the Safari extension changelog it seems that you need to use a 1PW beta. Again, I'm not interested in beta software, I have other things to do with my precious time. What I am looking for is a consistent interface across multiple browsers that saves me time and effort. Once upon a time that interface was 1PW, I can only hope that we get back to that state ASAP.

[/quote]

We are also interested in getting work done. We use 1Password ourselves as well — as you might imagine. I'm glad you have found a system that works for you!



The Safari 5.1 extension is still in beta, and we are working hard to make it better every hour of every day.

khad

[quote name='A User' timestamp='1311688697' post='34170']

I have to say I've been watching/reading and I am happy about the changes that have been going on lately. I'm thankful that the 1password/agile team has been listening to users' feedback and are working hard to make changes.



With these new changes, sites I used to not be able to log into with the 1P extension are now working; In addition, I'm actually finding it kind of easy to hit CMD+/ (I changed it) to fill a login form on a site, even though I do miss the dropdown menu.



Things still aren't perfect, like not having the ability to say "never for this site" and how 1P seems to randomly want me to save my login details (i've turned off autosave in the 1P preferences as well as Safari but it's still acting up), and earlier today I logged into the extension and it said "no data".



It seems like patience will be a virtue as the 1Password team work hard to bring back old functionalities and make the design better (it's pretty, but unusable to the point of making me cringe). I liked what I saw in the latest blog post from Sunday - and about that, anyone who works on a Sunday deserves some karma. It's a good thing, too, because I was a few hours away from deleting 1Password and moving to LP <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

[/quote]

Thank you for the kind words! I'm glad that things are improving for you in the new extension. There are a number of improvements to the form filling code (among other things). Per-item autosubmit values are respected in the latest update. Thanks for using 1Password! We're working almost 24 hours a day lately to show you how much we appreciate it. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_bigsmile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-D' />



Cheers,

khad

[quote name='Tadd Peake' timestamp='1311704106' post='34220']

I'm not angry; I'm panicked!



I registered at my new stock broker account and couldn't save the login, the password, the security questions. Nada. I clicked Save in the popup. I opened 1Password to make sure everything was there. It was nowhere to be found. [/quote]

It can take a moment for the changes in the extension to reflect in the main application. If you are still having trouble, please start another thread. I would love to give this the attention it deserves. This is not expected behavior.



[quote]Where is the button to copy the generated password to the clipboard? [/quote]

Could you please try the new Beta release (3.7.0.BETA-2). The copy button is one of the many additions in the latest update. You can do this by going to the 1Password > Preferences window, selecting the Update panel, enable the "Include Beta versions" checkbox, and then click Check Now. Once the update is installed, try again and see if it helps.



[quote]Where is the ability to name a login? [/quote]

This is only available during autosave at this time but will be added back for manual save as soon as possible.



[quote]Where is the ability to open 1Password from the plugin popup? [/quote]

We are looking at the way to open 1Password from the extension, this is mostly a design UI. As a workaround, you can type "x-onepassword://" in Safari location bar and then drag-and-drop it to the bookmark bar and name it "Launch 1Password”.



[quote]I was going to buy 1password for all my friends for Christmas, but there is no way if I can't use it myself. If there are Lion issues, you should let users know what they are while waiting for the update to load, or something. [/quote]

I agree. We are working to improve the first-run experience.



[quote]I do like the larger logins for sites. Very handy.[/quote]

Thanks!

khad

[quote name='Tadd Peake' timestamp='1311706997' post='34230']

Did I somehow get a 1Password version from an alternate universe? The new plugin doesn't match any of the help files or online documentation.



Is there any way I can go back to an older version? As much as I prefer Safari, I'll switch browsers if you'll give me back something I can figure out how to use.

[/quote]

Hey Tadd,



We have [url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password3/safari_5.1_intro.html"]documentation for the new Safari extension[/url] (along with the rest of [url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password3/faqs.html"]the FAQs in the New Safari Extension category[/url]), but if you would like to use the old interface for now, it is available in Firefox 5.



Please let me know if there is anything else I can help with!

khad

[quote name='kaizee' timestamp='1311707076' post='34231']

I just registrated to say I'm feeling the same:

I'm dissatisfied!





I liked(!) the usability of the "1P" Button and now it's gone!

(although you explained there are no possibilities at the moment to rebuild it (really?!) because of Apple's changes to 3rd Application rights or something like that.)





Using 1P since 2008 and I'm really nearby saying goodbye to 1Password and work on with alternative applications.



Furthermore, I'm also frustrated that I recommended it to my friends and family.



I will do the opposite in a few days if you (AgileBits) stay at your new design.



That's the law of the market that won't stop in front of AgileBits' gates!

(please just read through the forum and listen what your customers say!)





Kind regards from Germany,

Kai

[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback, Kai. It is true, though. It is impossible to use the previous code in Safari any more. I'm sorry if that is not the answer you were looking for, but we are definitely listening to the feedback from our users (just as we always have). The progress that has been made in just one week has blown me away. I can't even imagine how awesome things are going to be in another week or two. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



1Password will always be there if you need it even if you want to explore other options for now. We would be sad to see you go, but that means we just have to work harder to make it worth your while to come back. And we will. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';-)' />

khad

[quote name='tommy' timestamp='1311711383' post='34244']

On my first try, I was startled. I don't particularily care for the interface but I have had no trouble working in Safari 5.1 and Firefox 5.0.1

Someone said Folders are gone. Mine are there.

Same great program.

Thanks, guys

[/quote]

Thanks for the encouragement, tommy! While folders are not present in the new Safari 5.1 extension interface yet, we are working to add them back. They are still present in Firefox and the main application as always.



Cheers!

khad

These longer threads make it really difficult to address specific issues, so I am going to close this one now. Please do start a new thread if you have a specific issue that has not yet been addressed! I want nothing more than to give personal support to each of you. Threads like this are the virtual equivalent of shouting in the living room at a party. Let's sneak off to the kitchen for a one-on-one chat if you need some help. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



I'll meet you there!