Feedback on the new Safari 5.1 extension

=RS=

Using the new plugin for 1 day now and there is already 3 things heavily missing, that I was used to from previous versions:



1. When creating new login data for a already existing page in my data base, I get no more the possibility to replace the old data with the new. 1P is creating a new set of data instead, leaving me with 2 sets for the same page. What a mess!

2. No way to open 1P from within the plugin. Bummer!

3. unlocking seems to be totally independent for the app and the plugin now. This leaves me with having to unlock both, one after the other, if needed.



And a GUI thing:

The plugin window is very distractive to my eyes! It's so huge compared to the old "contextual" style, which had all the information on one "page". And being so huge you still need 4 tabs at the bottom to give access to all features....



With all this experience the plugin is really getting into my way of working and is a huge step back for me!

I would love to go back to the old version till you have figured all this out, but unfortunately I don't know a way to revert to Safari 5.0. Well, I did nowhere read about this new approach you implemented, until I had installed Safari 5.1 and 1P was not there anymore... this teaches me for next time!



Ralf

Haravikk

The extension is still very much a beta, I don't think it was really intended to be released properly so-soon, but changes in Safari 5.1 have made it a requirement I think, as the older plugins mustn't work anymore?



The absence of the replace option is a little annoying, but they're definitely working on putting the contextual menu back in.

Angus

[quote name='=RS=' timestamp='1311756364' post='34321']I would love to go back to the old version till you have figured all this out, but unfortunately I don't know a way to revert to Safari 5.0. Well, I did nowhere read about this new approach you implemented, until I had installed Safari 5.1 and 1P was not there anymore... this teaches me for next time![/quote]

Do you use Time Machine? If so then couldn't you just go back to the last backup before you updated to Safari 5.1, find Safari.app and click 'restore'? Likewise 1P if necessary.

=RS=

[quote name='Angus' timestamp='1311763888' post='34333']

Do you use Time Machine? If so then couldn't you just go back to the last backup before you updated to Safari 5.1, find Safari.app and click 'restore'? Likewise 1P if necessary.

[/quote]



Not sure if that is possible as with updating Safari you update all the WebKit files also (that's why you need to restart after updating). So reverting the Safari app only, might lead into big problems?

Finne Fortuin

I agree with the OP, this interface for 1Password in Safari 5.1 is a step back. I specifically miss the small translucent search & go menu. The new window is much to big for such a simple feature as the quick search box, and the results don't fit in the window making me scroll, whereas the translucent small window would resize and show me all I needed. Please try and restore some of that functionality.

manuel

Agreed with the OP. I miss the old sub-menus, everything comes in as one list. I have my logins organised in folders which I can't access anymore from the 1P menu. When I recall a website from the 1P menu, it doesn't open in a new tab like it used to.

chupacabra

I completely agree. It just took me four tries to create an entry for a new site. First, the animated drop in view at the top is clever but too easy to dismiss. With a modal alert, I had to respond and couldn't do anything else. Next, the plugin fails to put my generated password on my pasteboard and since I accidentally failed to save, I was stuck. I had to request a new password twice before I got it together. Number 1 above is definitely an issue too. I also find the plugin window to be really big but for no good reason. I used to just get a simple menu, now I have this big window that is missing features. I'm not very happy with the new plugin.



Marc

bitflimmern

I totally agree, please add a way to access the logins the old fashioned way. It's so much easier!



This huge window uses way too much space and it's not a great experience at all. Besides the optical issues, it does not work at all times. Sometimes it does not accept my password, and most of the times it does not submit the login fields and I cannot find an option for that anywhere.



So please let the users choose which style to use, instead of "enhancing everyone's experience".



thanks!

SpikeDDS

I'm with these guys. Too much flash now as compared with functionality. Too big.



And I also actually miss just typing my password and having 1P login for me right on the same page I'm already on. Doing it that way is broken for me.

David K

I am voting to bring the sub menu back. I used it more than my bookmarks...

roustem

With the changes in Lion and Safari 5.1 we simply cannot use the old code. The old code does not work because of the changes in Lion security and because Safari is now using a new WebKit2 framework.



The new 1Password extension is now built using the official Safari extension API.

It has some limitations and we are finding our way through them.



At this point we feel that most of the reported issues will be resolved. We are also working on a new design:

http://blog.agilebits.com/2011/07/big-safari-extension-updates-and-a-sneak-peek/

kmead

Sorry to pile on but what you are doing right now doesn't work. Not even a little bit.



I upgraded my Safari to 5.1 and then 1P. Despite repeated updates I am completely unimpressed. Where before I was a strong advocate for your software and recommended it to many people, now its not even worth having on my computer anymore.



It may be fine that you can't do what you did before, but that doesn't mean what you are doing is the correct answer. Apple may have made huge changes to what and how you access the browser but the time you had to create a solution wasn't well spent if the current solution is evidence of your brainstorming and resultant work to provide a revised product. If this is the direction you should have gone to a new version number with strong proviso's as to what one is signing up for.



The idea is that it just works. In this case, it just doesn't.



The new popover window takes up too much room. It honestly looks terrible and the gray on gray readability is poor. You need to go back and redo the graphic artwork to improve readability, the information shown and how one accesses it.



It doesn't give me the information I want immediately but requires I pull down, click or other action to get to even see what I need to know.



It flat out doesn't work. Before within my corporate environment I would go to a secure internal site and when I the window to login came up I could click on the 1P button and it would fill in my info. Now I can't access it at all once the window has popped up so I can't access 1P. I also can just copy and paste from the 1P program window either. Since the stupidity of MS knows no bounds, going to a Sharepoint site requires a half dozen reentries of my user name and password to get to the various sublevels. The old 1P would take care of this without me needing to do anything more than entering my master password and I was through for that session.



I will be reverting to the old version of Safari and going back to the old version of 1P so I can go back to a fast, easy solution to my security needs at home and work. I will watch what you do but if it doesn't improve my next upgrade fee will be spent elsewhere on a solution that does work.



Good luck and hoping for a solution from your development team.



Karl

Angus

[quote name='=RS=' timestamp='1311765887' post='34335']

Not sure if that is possible as with updating Safari you update all the WebKit files also (that's why you need to restart after updating). So reverting the Safari app only, might lead into big problems?

[/quote]

A [url="http://www.macworld.com/article/161367/2011/07/revert_safari.html"]very recent post on Macworld.com[/url] suggests that reverting to 5.0.3 from a backup is possible. One commenter says that they've gone back and 1P functionality has returned, though they didn't say whether they'd done via a backup or by finding a 5.0 download somewhere. I'd say it's worth a try, and I might try it myself not because of 1P but because I'm less than impressed with 5.1 itself.





Edited to add: Okay, Safari 5.1's own problems drove me to the point of reverting. 1P issues are annoying but the browser itself has fallen over so much this morning that it's just not worth sticking with it. So I backed up from Time Machine and I'm now on 5.0.5, and as far as I can tell at the moment 1Password is back to how it used to be, though for some reason the toolbar button has stopped working. I guess the extension isn't compatible but it's not a big deal because the little 1P key is back in the menu bar and I used that most of the time anyway. I've disabled the 1P extension for now as I'm not planning to go back to Safari 5.1 until Apple fix all its problems.

bitflimmern

Buhu, if you have a business based on Apple's software, you should sign up for the developer programs to have access to the latest preview builds in order to make your software compatible.

It's definitely not serious business, to be surprised by a new software release, which was announced quite a while ago. That's totally unprofessional.

And what's even more unprofessional is to tell people, that you've been working very hard the last couple of days. Wow, that's the least I expect when I spend money on a tool.



Get yourself together and publish a working solution that does not look like designed by a freshman. Thanks!

Examinus

[quote name='bitflimmern' timestamp='1311870020' post='34682']

Buhu, if you have a business based on Apple's software, you should sign up for the developer programs to have access to the latest preview builds in order to make your software compatible.

It's definitely not serious business, to be surprised by a new software release, which was announced quite a while ago. That's totally unprofessional.

And what's even more unprofessional is to tell people, that you've been working very hard the last couple of days. Wow, that's the least I expect when I spend money on a tool.



Get yourself together and publish a working solution that does not look like designed by a freshman. Thanks!

[/quote]



Do you think Agile were surprised by Lion's sudden and completely unexpected release or the sudden and unexpected removal of scripting additions from Safari 5.1?

dteare

[quote name='bitflimmern']

Buhu, if you have a business based on Apple's software, you should sign up for the developer programs to have access to the latest preview builds in order to make your software compatible.

[/quote]



We have been using Lion for months. That's why when Lion was released the core functionality of 1Password worked for many users.



I agree that the Safari extension was not polished and was lacking features when Lion was released, but the core functionality was there. We wanted those upgrading to Lion to have Safari 5.1 support on day one so we allowed everyone to see the unpolished extension.



[quote name='Examinus' timestamp='1311870378' post='34683']

Do you think Agile were surprised by Lion's sudden and completely unexpected release or the sudden and unexpected removal of scripting additions from Safari 5.1?

[/quote]



The surprise was during the Lion seeds Scripting Additions came and then left and the Safari extension api had some bumps, too. It wasn't until near the end that we had a stable platform for development. It's not an excuse but the argument is we had copious amounts of time to completely rewrite the 1Password extension so I wanted to shed some light on the fact that this was not the case.

bitflimmern

[quote name='Examinus' timestamp='1311870378' post='34683']

Do you think Agile were surprised by Lion's sudden and completely unexpected release or the sudden and unexpected removal of scripting additions from Safari 5.1?

[/quote]



From what I read, yes, it seems they were surprised.

dteare

I wanted to go back to the Ralf's original points:



[quote name='=RS=' timestamp='1311756364' post='34321']

1. When creating new login data for a already existing page in my data base, I get no more the possibility to replace the old data with the new. 1P is creating a new set of data instead, leaving me with 2 sets for the same page. What a mess!

2. No way to open 1P from within the plugin. Bummer!

[/quote]



We can certainly add these features back. In Dan's new UI design there will be room for a Open 1Password button in the Advanced tab. I'm not sure how the Replace UI will be yet but we'll get there.



[quote name='=RS=' timestamp='1311756364' post='34321']

3. unlocking seems to be totally independent for the app and the plugin now. This leaves me with having to unlock both, one after the other, if needed.

[/quote]



Universal Unlock was added in yesterday's round of updates.



[quote name='=RS=' timestamp='1311756364' post='34321']

The plugin window is very distractive to my eyes! It's so huge compared to the old "contextual" style, which had all the information on one "page". And being so huge you still need 4 tabs at the bottom to give access to all features....

[/quote]



I hope you'll enjoy the new design that we'll release shortly. It is about half the size.



Of course menus are smaller and context menus are very important for situations when no toolbar is shown, so we're looking into what can be done there. So far we've found the official Safari Extension API is limited but we're reporting our needs to Apple and hope this changes with time.

latigo

[quote name='Haravikk' timestamp='1311761007' post='34331']

The extension is still very much a beta, I don't think it was really intended to be released properly so-soon, but changes in Safari 5.1 have made it a requirement I think, as the older plugins mustn't work anymore?



The absence of the replace option is a little annoying, but they're definitely working on putting the contextual menu back in.

[/quote]





Certainly missed a chance "to do nothing" with respect to the user interface. We've gone from " a nice utility that makes things easier" to some sort of an in-your-face security attack. Am very disappointed that software seems to be designed without the user in mind. "User friendly" apparently got dropped in the last revision.



-Jack-

Colorado Springs

tenoreprimo

I am not a developer, power user, or in any way qualified to comment on the programming of the new 1P. However, for several years I have used 1P and it has (more or less) worked for the purposes for which I bought it with little or no imposition on my consciousness. Now, at least in Safari, it is obtrusive, inconvenient and causes more trouble than it is worth. If I want to continue to use Safari, I will have to ditch 1P and go back to copying and pasting IDs and Passwords.



Shame on you for ruining a great product.

lukens

I hate to have to agree, because up until now you guys have been doing a fantastic job, and I've recommended this software to several people, and I know what it's like to work hard on some software just to get negative feedback, but this really is a step backwards, and in a matter of days I've gone from loving 1password hating it, and regretting having all my password data locked up in it.



Issues that have particularly bothered me are:



1) The over sized and overly intrusive new gui



2) The less friendly, slower, and weirdly animated 'save password' overlay



3) The loss of the 'replace existing login' functionality



4) The loss of the 'save last generated password' functionality



5) The fact that generated passwords in the plugin seem not to be saved at all anywhere, so you can't get back previously generated passwords



6) 4 and 5 combine to mean that after creating a new login, or changing a password, and 1password failing to offer to save it, you then have no way to get back the generated password



7) Fewer login pages seem to work/be supported than before



Its become a nightmare.





The only plus side of all this is I've learned of the 'option+\' shortcut, which means I often don't have to see the ugly new GUI at all (except the times that I have more than one login saved, or it can't find one for some reason, or I have to unlock the passwords yet again).



I do wish I could like it, I've tried for a few days to get used to it and to wait for updates, but it become a pain in the ass to use, and I'm really disappointed in a great product being ruined. I really hope you guys can fix these things, and quick. I'm sorry to complain, and I know most of these issues have probably already mentioned, and that you're doing your best, and that you were forced to change because of Safari being changed on you, I just hope you can get it sorted ASAP.

kuban89

I agree wholeheartedly with the theme of this topic and the worst part is the administrators of the company are trying to pass this off as an "improvement" when they know full well it was just a cheap hack job designed to make things work in Lion.



The menu-style interface was one of the most pleasant features of 1Password on the Mac an now it's gone! The new interface is clunky, way too big and requires ten steps to do what you used to be able to do in one or two steps. All the cool features and direct links for saving, changing or looking up your passwords are gone.



Is this better? I don't think so.



This is the same crap they used to make the thing work in Chrome for Windows. I use it at the office because I have no choice and was always so happy to pressed the "P" button in Safari on my laptop and be greeted by such an intelligent and useful interface.



I truly believe it was one of the things that made everyone fall in love with 1Password and now they've completely ruined it. It's like they gave this to some out of work Google or Windows programmer to put together. Yeah, it works, but the user experience is destroyed. Now it's just one more password vault, like so many others out there



And it's NOT a question of reported "issues" you need to "work on". The entire concept is wrong. It can't be "fixed". You need to start over, from the ground up and guess what, find a way to re-create the user experience you had before or go the way of your cousins from Research in Motion, who made the same mistake.

jayxhk

[quote name='=RS=' timestamp='1311756364' post='34321']



And a GUI thing:

The plugin window is very distractive to my eyes! It's so huge compared to the old "contextual" style, which had all the information on one "page". And being so huge you still need 4 tabs at the bottom to give access to all features....



[/quote]



Can't agree more. That huge ugly GUI is terrible. I hate to say that, but that's a matter of taste.



Jay

F451

Well, I've had a beta of 1P since the beginning when users could actually access a beta. I've run all of Agile's betas since then, and still today. What I believe that users are failing to see is that AgileBits has not let users down and will work until there is an acceptable solution—at least for the majority of users. This all takes time, but just look at how much they've already accomplished in a short period given the complexities of all the Mac operating systems they have to take into consideration with Lion's and Safari 5.1's new launch.



I freely admit that I have a complete and utter positive bias for the AgileBits team as they remind me so much of Apple's early days developers who really gave a damn and made serious effort to what they were doing. Can we please at least give them some more breathing room to allow then to do their magic (aka work) versus having them spend precious time on their forums responding to threads. I know AgileBits will come through—they always do.

2stepbay

Not going to cover the same ground others have posted, however, I'll say I agree with complaints about Auto-Lock, reentering my Master Password, and unnecessary multiple entries. I don't mind the drop down panel in Safari as long as I can open 1P from the panel.



I also saw the MacWorld article by Chris Breen about going back to 5.0.3. As I posted there, to revert to Safari 5.0.5 on Snow Leopard, simply reapply the [url="http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1399"]10.6.8 Combo Update[/url]. Upon the restart, "repair permissions" via Disk Utility.



Non-1P suggestion: for anyone posting/reading here who is experiencing Safari 5.1 problems, might be helpful to disable [u][b]al[/b][/u]l extensions via the Safari Preferences>Extensions panel. Then restart Safari and see if it is stable. If it is stable, add one extension back at a time, restarting Safari and each reenable. If instability occurs, you found at least one of the culprits. Given that Apple supports extensions, it's unfortunate Apple did not forewarn users prior to updating there might be incompatibility issues with 5.1. Also, if you have Glims installed, there are compatibility issues with the latest build (beta). Best to uninstall Glims until the developer gets things sorted out sometime early next week.

Polimon

Before I upgraded to Lion, I loved 1Password every day. Now, I hate it every day. Here's why:



1. It is always asking me to save logins that are already saved. It never remembers. Every single time.



2. The new Safari plugin wastes so many clicks. I used to be able to log in with 1 click! WTF?



3. I don't need to enter the Master Password and click thru 2 boxes every time I try to log in to a site. Just let me log in already.



4. Why did you break what was working fine? I understand that you had to recode, but please fix this mess!

khad

[quote name='latigo' timestamp='1311877205' post='34724']

Certainly missed a chance "to do nothing" with respect to the user interface. We've gone from " a nice utility that makes things easier" to some sort of an in-your-face security attack. Am very disappointed that software seems to be designed without the user in mind. "User friendly" apparently got dropped in the last revision.



-Jack-

Colorado Springs

[/quote]

Please read the posts above yours. "Doing nothing" was only an option if we didn't want 1Password to work in Safari 5.1. There were technical changes that prevent us from using the code from the past 5 years. It would have been much easier for everyone if this was not the case, but that is the reality of it.



We are working hard to make the new extension meet and even exceed the old one. If you haven't looked at the aforelinked blog posts, please do. There have been huge updates in the past week with more on the way. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

khad

Welcome to the forums, lukens! Although I wish it were under better circumstances, we would are still happy to help!



[quote name='lukens' timestamp='1311888698' post='34771']

1) The over sized and overly intrusive new guy[/quote]

[url="http://blog.agilebits.com/2011/07/big-safari-extension-updates-and-a-sneak-peek/"]Please take a look at the blog post Roustem linked to earlier in the thread[/url]. We are working on a new interface that blends together the best of the old and new extensions and still fits within the framework provided by Apple in the Safari 5.1 extension APIs. It will be available shortly.



[quote]2) The less friendly, slower, and weirdly animated 'save password' overlay[/quote]

If you have the 1P toolbar button in place, there is a popover just like the new Downloads button in Lion. The overlay is only a fallback if you have removed the button from the toolbar.



[quote]3) The loss of the 'replace existing login' functionality[/quote]

We are working to restore this in the new extension.



[quote]4) The loss of the 'save last generated password' functionality[/quote]

Perhaps you mean, "FIll Last Generated Password". This is available in the Password Generator by clicking the "View Password History" button at the bottom of the extension popover. Simply click the password in the list that you want to fill. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



[quote]5) The fact that generated passwords in the plugin seem not to be saved at all anywhere, so you can't get back previously generated passwords[/quote]

There is a known issue where passwords generated in the browser do not contain title or location information, but this should be fixed soon.



[quote]6) 4 and 5 combine to mean that after creating a new login, or changing a password, and 1password failing to offer to save it, you then have no way to get back the generated password[/quote]

While the issue is present, you can sort the Generated Passwords section in the main application by date created to easily retrieve the latest password you generated. Again, we are working to improve this.



[quote]7) Fewer login pages seem to work/be supported than before[/quote]

If you have specific URLs that would be helpful. We can only help if where know where the problem is. We would love to get the issues resolved for you, though. Help us help you. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

khad

[quote name='2stepbay' timestamp='1311911662' post='34837']

Not going to cover the same ground others have posted, however, I'll say I agree with complaints about Auto-Lock, reentering my Master Password, and unnecessary multiple entries. I don't mind the drop down panel in Safari as long as I can open 1P from the panel.



I also saw the MacWorld article by Chris Breen about going back to 5.0.3. As I posted there, to revert to Safari 5.0.5 on Snow Leopard, simply reapply the [url="http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1399"]10.6.8 Combo Update[/url]. Upon the restart, "repair permissions" via Disk Utility.



Non-1P suggestion: for anyone posting/reading here who is experiencing Safari 5.1 problems, might be helpful to disable [u][b]al[/b][/u]l extensions via the Safari Preferences>Extensions panel. Then restart Safari and see if it is stable. If it is stable, add one extension back at a time, restarting Safari and each reenable. If instability occurs, you found at least one of the culprits. Given that Apple supports extensions, it's unfortunate Apple did not forewarn users prior to updating there might be incompatibility issues with 5.1. Also, if you have Glims installed, there are compatibility issues with the latest build (beta). Best to uninstall Glims until the developer gets things sorted out sometime early next week.

[/quote]

Universal Unlock is supported in the latest update and "Launch 1Password" is on the way.



In the meantime, you can type "x-onepassword://" in the Safari address bar and then drag-and-drop it to the bookmark bar and name it "Launch 1Password”.



I hope that helps for now. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />

khad

Welcome to the forums, Polimon!



[quote name='Polimon' timestamp='1311917481' post='34849']

1. It is always asking me to save logins that are already saved. It never remembers. Every single time.[/quote]

There is a known issue with Safari's own AutoFill. [url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password3/safari_autofill.html"]Please see our User Guide for instructions on how to resolve this.[/url]



[quote]2. The new Safari plugin wastes so many clicks. I used to be able to log in with 1 click! WTF?[/quote]

The clicks are the same: once on the 1P toolbar button, and then another on the Login item. Alternatively, you can use the Command-\ keyboard shortcut just as before for even faster logins. <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



[quote]3. I don't need to enter the Master Password and click thru 2 boxes every time I try to log in to a site. Just let me log in already. [/quote]

Are you using the latest version of 1Password and the Safari extension? There was an issue with Universal Unlock previously but this has been resolved. If you are still seeing this in with at least 1Password 3.7.0 and version 3.7.b2 of the Safari extension please let me know. I would love to get this resolved for you.

khad

I'm going to close this thread now since it is starting to sprawl and cover many, many different topics. We want to make sure that everyone's issue is addressed. I don't like the idea that something could slip between the cracks in a thread this large. It is just too much to keep up with (even working around the clock as we are).



We love your feedback, and we love you. You all deserve special attention, and we have a better shot at providing that if you post in a thread which deals with the specific issue you are having (or start a new one if no such thread exists). <img src='http://forum.agile.ws/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';-)' />



Mahalo!