Free upgrades to 1Password 4 ONLY for Mac App store purchase? [Answered]

dian

Just noticed that 1Password has landed on Mac App store saying "buy now and get 1Password 4 for free", so users who purchased through web store cannot get the upgrade for free? (If so I think I should buy this copy since the promotional sale price is still lower than the upgrade price in Agile Web store)



The MAS version of 1Password is 3.9, is it diffident from the web release which the latest stable version is 3.8.3?

[Deleted User]

That's right, we wanted to get 1Password into the Mac App Store for everyone to enjoy as quickly as possible, and as well as a great introductory price you'll also get an upgrade to 1Password 4, when it's eventually released, at no extra cost.



Our existing users are, of course, incredibly important to us but as of yet we haven't decided if 1Password 4 will be available through our web store, it's just too early to say.



There are some fairly big differences between 1Password 3.8 from our online store and 1Password 3.9 from the Mac App Store and I detail these in [url="http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/8026-mac-app-store/page__view__findpost__p__45302"]this post[/url].



The big difference is that 1Password 3.9 in the Mac App Store is Lion only. 1Password 3.8 will continue to be updated, we're not abandoning our Snow Leopard users by any means but to help make things clear the Mac App Store version will always have a different version number.

dian

It is reasonable to make 1Password 4 a paid upgrade for old users, since you had already spent a lot of efforts on the version of 3.6 which most codes were rewrote. I think I am going to buy this MAS version in order to get the future v4 updates (though I just purchased 1P v3 through the web store less than six months ago). I guess most users will also understand your hard work. So just keep working and bring us more surprise! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

[Deleted User]

Thanks Dian, we really appreciate the support, we're really excited about the future of 1Password.

caesar113

I'm a bit confused... you just said this...

[quote name='stu' timestamp='1315481421' post='45306']

Our existing users are, of course, incredibly important to us but[i][color=#ff0000][b] as of yet we haven't decided if 1Password 4 will be available through our web store, it's just too early to say.[/b][/color][/i]

[/quote]

...while the MAS 1Password description says this...

[quote]

[color=#ff0000][b][i]1Password 4 will only be available in Mac App Store.[/i][/b][/color]

[/quote]

This isn't fair to jerk us around. Someone needs to have made a decision on this matter before the application hit the MAS. Please give us a straight answer. I can understand the desire to move to the MAS from the business perspective. The free advertising and exposure are obviously beneficial to sales. However, from a technical and customer service perspective, this is a huge mistake. You are removing functionality that you sold to existing customers. Is gaining new customers worth alienating your existing customer base? Who knows... Maybe your profit margins will suggest it was worth it... Or maybe word of mouth and Internet reviews of AgileBits poor business practices will get around and ruin your reputation. This is quite a gamble to make without having a clear business plan and upgrade roadmap. Whoever is in charge of this product launch should be ashamed of themselves.



Please give us a clear and decisive response on this matter. Trying to scare users into moving the MAS version with the [i]limited time offer[/i] that you claim not to know when will expire is just inexcusably dishonest.

roustem

[quote name='caesar113' timestamp='1315538873' post='46050']

I'm a bit confused... you just said this...



...while the MAS 1Password description says this...



This isn't fair to jerk us around. Someone needs to have made a decision on this matter before the application hit the MAS. Please give us a straight answer. I can understand the desire to move to the MAS from the business perspective. The free advertising and exposure are obviously beneficial to sales. However, from a technical and customer service perspective, this is a huge mistake. You are removing functionality that you sold to existing customers. Is gaining new customers worth alienating your existing customer base? Who knows... Maybe your profit margins will suggest it was worth it... Or maybe word of mouth and Internet reviews of AgileBits poor business practices will get around and ruin your reputation. This is quite a gamble to make without having a clear business plan and upgrade roadmap. Whoever is in charge of this product launch should be ashamed of themselves.



Please give us a clear and decisive response on this matter. Trying to scare users into moving the MAS version with the [i]limited time offer[/i] that you claim not to know when will expire is just inexcusably dishonest.

[/quote]



It was decided soon after Stu posted his message and then I updated the description in App Store.



We are not trying to scare anyone into anything. We are trying to get ourselves time back to write software. The time we spent on managing (currently 6) servers, one store, 2 merchant accounts. And time spent on creating our own licensing scheme. We'd better spend it on making 1Password better.

caesar113

[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315539313' post='46060']

We are not trying to scare anyone into anything.

[/quote]

If you're not trying to scare anyone into anything, then give us a date that the offer will end. Then tell us what new features will be offered in IP4 (or what features may be taken away as the trend seems to be). I'm tired of the responses that tell me how you need more time to do your jobs and completely discount your customers' issues with this "announcement." If you don't have enough time to do what you need to be doing, that's usually a good sign you need to hire more people. That's generally a better decision than telling your customer base that "we are changing the product we sold you under your feet to make our lives easier. While it makes the product worse for you and changes the feature set that we sold you, we don't really care." If you have a problem with working 12 hour days, 7 days a week (and I don't blame you), then hire more people or go get a 8-5 job as a developer somewhere, but NEVER complain to your customers that you need to make your life easier at their expense. That's not your customers' problem. That your problem and your company's problem. That's what happens when you run a company. That was your decision. It's still your decision not to hire contractors or interns or outsource your server, store, and licensing needs. If those things are really taking up that much of your time, then find someone who is better at those things.



Recognize the complaints that are being made. Recognize the faults of moving to MAS. Recognize the confusion you've created. Recognize the right hand isn't talking to the left (you're telling me that the decision has been made, while another "founder" is posting in other threads saying "nothing is set in stone.")



You can't just go public with saying "we're not really sure what we're doing going forward" and not expect a backlash from your customers.

Mike B

I have to agree with caesar113. I'm also [i]really[/i] dubious about this "highest ever" adoption rate of Lion - it's just too soon. It's worth remembering Lion was only released [i]8 weeks[/i] ago. Perhaps you could tell us exactly what percentage of 1PW users are on Lion? I won't be able to move to Lion for some time thanks to legacy issues. I cannot even buy 3.9 at the discount price to install later when I do. Seems like the MAS move was more about new customers than existing (despite your claims otherwise).



Between moving to the MAS[i] and [/i]dropping Snow Leopard support for new versions both apparently to allow you to focus your teams time on writing software I wonder if you just haven't just recently lost the guy who used to be good at all that?



Overall is seems (sadly) to me that like so many other once existing-customer friendly Apple developers, your transition to the MAS reduces you to that of the lowest common denominator. In fact with this threat of an unspecified limited time discount offer I'd say you've handled it pretty badly. Sorry.

Carl

[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315539313' post='46060']



It was decided soon after Stu posted his message and then I updated the description in App Store.



We are not trying to scare anyone into anything. We are trying to get ourselves time back to write software. The time we spent on managing (currently 6) servers, one store, 2 merchant accounts. And time spent on creating our own licensing scheme. We'd better spend it on making 1Password better.

[/quote]





It is amazing that Amazon.com can even stay in business. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



Should have stuck with graphical licenses. Hell, everyone can drag and drop! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

Ben

[quote name='Carl' timestamp='1315709649' post='47571']

Should have stuck with graphical licenses. Hell, everyone can drag and drop! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

[/quote]



Do you remember what a nightmare graphical licenses were? <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

Carl

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315709980' post='47574']



Do you remember what a nightmare graphical licenses were? <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

[/quote]



That was a joke Ben. Of course, I remember.

mkalina

Okay, I bought my copy of 1Password on July 17th this year, I love it, and now I read that 1Password practically moves to the MAS. Although I absolutely do not like this move (MAS should be an [i]additional[/i] way of delivering software, not the [i]only[/i] way), I just would like to have an answer to this question:



To further be able to use 1Password in all its upgradable glory, should I re-buy it from the MAS or will future releases also be available directly from AgileBits? What [i]should[/i] I do?



Thank you,

Michael

Mangoes

Very disappointing reading these replies from Agile. It is very clear they did the move to MAS to benefit themselves and no one else. Us long time loyal customers are not cared about.



VERY POOR.

Sam_A

1Password is the most valued app on my computers, iPhone and iPad. I can't imagine life without it as it's critical to my everyday life. I also love the convenience of the App Store and was delighted to see 1Password there and I bought it without thinking twice. Seriously, it's only twenty freakin dollars and you get the 4.0 upgrade! If money is that tight then just lay off Starbucks for a couple of days and it's covered. I have the highest regard for the Agile coders who bring us this fantastic application and I wish them great success in the App Store.

dtruett

[quote name='caesar113' timestamp='1315686209' post='47404']

If you're not trying to scare anyone into anything, then give us a date that the offer will end. Then tell us what new features will be offered in IP4 (or what features may be taken away as the trend seems to be). I'm tired of the responses that tell me how you need more time to do your jobs and completely discount your customers' issues with this "announcement." If you don't have enough time to do what you need to be doing, that's usually a good sign you need to hire more people. That's generally a better decision than telling your customer base that "we are changing the product we sold you under your feet to make our lives easier. While it makes the product worse for you and changes the feature set that we sold you, we don't really care." If you have a problem with working 12 hour days, 7 days a week (and I don't blame you), then hire more people or go get a 8-5 job as a developer somewhere, but NEVER complain to your customers that you need to make your life easier at their expense. That's not your customers' problem. That your problem and your company's problem. That's what happens when you run a company. That was your decision. It's still your decision not to hire contractors or interns or outsource your server, store, and licensing needs. If those things are really taking up that much of your time, then find someone who is better at those things.



Recognize the complaints that are being made. Recognize the faults of moving to MAS. Recognize the confusion you've created. Recognize the right hand isn't talking to the left (you're telling me that the decision has been made, while another "founder" is posting in other threads saying "nothing is set in stone.")



You can't just go public with saying "we're not really sure what we're doing going forward" and not expect a backlash from your customers.

[/quote]



I couldn't agree more with this post. Offer end date (went up $5 today), features coming in v.4, and the constant talk of how busy they are with the non-coding side of things. And every time there is a post from someone who doesn't feel cheated, as I, a user of 1Password since the beginning, do, there's an almost pollyanna response.

Soul_1210

Well, I decided to to post my two cents. I think if you really love the product you should try to support the developers. Thats why I without thinking twice decided to by 1Password app again as soon as I saw it was available thru App Store. We are not talking about big bucks here, it's only $25. Thats less then a movie ticket or 5 cups of coffee. If you so piss about it, I'm filling sorry for you. As far as Agile is being lazy and not supporting old customers, I intend to dis-agree. What they did is a normal business model and good marketing strategy. I don't see any of you call-in to your ISP and telling them why do you offer free Xbox & 6 month 50% off for new customers and nothing to existing? The truth is competition this days is very tough and companies must do all they can to bring more new customers. Now I must agree that this does make me fill that company does't care about me, thats why it would be great if Agile decided that customers that purchase 1Password thru website and App store, should get some kind of credit, either full or partial.



One thing I would like to see as feature that was long lost is integration with Upek finger scanning. What you say Agile? <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> I'm even ready to pay another $25 for it <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Mangoes

[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315539313' post='46060']



It was decided soon after Stu posted his message and then I updated the description in App Store.



We are not trying to scare anyone into anything. We are trying to get ourselves time back to write software. The time we spent on managing (currently 6) servers, one store, 2 merchant accounts. And time spent on creating our own licensing scheme. We'd better spend it on making 1Password better.

[/quote]



You still need to do that for the Windows version so.....

forrests

[b] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]roustem, why can't you add a line to version 3 (when you click 1 Password on the menu bar) to "upgrade license" as you have in version 2? Then when those of us who haven't moved to Lion yet can upgrade from you directly to version 3.9 or 4 when we are ready to make that move, and you can still offer us the "upgrade" price and keep your user base happy![/font][/size][/b]





[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]?? Thanks for considering this![/font][/size]

Mangoes

They won't have any servers to host the new version on. One of the reason they are moving solely to the MAS too much work to keep them running

Ben

The Mac App Store is now the sole distributor of 1Password 3.9+ and we have no way to charge different customers different prices: everyone pays the same price. We cannot do rain checks (this is simply not an option offered to developers).

kitmos

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315709980' post='47574']



Do you remember what a nightmare graphical licenses were? <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

[/quote]



As much as I dislike the move to MAS I disliked the graphical licenses more. What a mess they were.

Carl

[quote name='kitmos' timestamp='1316452046' post='50387']



As much as I dislike the move to MAS I disliked the graphical licenses more. What a mess they were.

[/quote]



Personally, I didn't have an issue with them from a user perspective. (worked fine for me) From a support perspective they were a nightmare. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

forrests

Geez Ben....for a guy with the title "Positive Experience Architect", you sure don't seem to want to work on solutions "outside the box" to help the current owners of 1P get an upgrade price. If one of us upgrades to Lion after your discount ends, you haven't worked very hard to come up with a system for upgrade pricing....outside the MAS. Since you have a list of current users, you could always issue us a rebate by check/cash card for the $25 we will pay "extra". All you would need to do is have a rebate form on your web site and we would submit it with our info from version 3. Plenty of companies do that. Sure it takes some resources, but don't you want to keep your customer base happy? That's what this conversation ALL seems to come down to!



??

Mangoes

The purpose of going MAS only is to avoid all of that so they can spend more time actually working on 1password.



Maybe they could send App Store gift cards ?

Ben

[quote name='forrests' timestamp='1316452974' post='50395']

Geez Ben....for a guy with the title "Positive Experience Architect", you sure don't seem to want to work on solutions "outside the box" to help the current owners of 1P get an upgrade price. If one of us upgrades to Lion after your discount ends, you haven't worked very hard to come up with a system for upgrade pricing....outside the MAS. Since you have a list of current users, you could always issue us a rebate by check/cash card for the $25 we will pay "extra". All you would need to do is have a rebate form on your web site and we would submit it with our info from version 3. Plenty of companies do that. Sure it takes some resources, but don't you want to keep your customer base happy? That's what this conversation ALL seems to come down to!



??

[/quote]



The whole reason for going to MAS, as Mangoes mentioned, is so we can focus on working on 1Password. We can leave all of the work of selling, distributing, running servers, processing refunds, etc to Apple.



If we start hand processing rebates, we've defeated that entire purpose, and created an even bigger task than what we had before.



There is no saying that we can't have other sales in the future, and no one has even said how long this one will last. But I can say we can't leave it up until all of our customers have upgraded to Lion, and we can't do rain checks.