App Store & Family license (5 users*)

Robert Mills

I have a [b]Family license[/b] (5 users*). Do I need to buy 5 Copies at the App store to upgrade?



My family license is a Mac + Windows bundle. Now what?



R-

Robert Mills

Can I get an answer?

Robert Mills

Thanks for helping out a user who is trying to upgrade (spend more money on your software).



<img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_no.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='(n)' />

hmurchison

Robert



1 copy of the MAS version is all you need to purchase to install on your computers.

mgshoutman

[quote name='Robert Mills' timestamp='1315528041' post='45928']

I have a [b]Family license[/b] (5 users*). Do I need to buy 5 Copies at the App store to upgrade?



My family license is a Mac + Windows bundle. Now what?



R-

[/quote]



One purchase on the MAS is sufficient for all your Macs connected with the same iTunes account. So this rebate price is an offer you can't refuse. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



MAS does not sell Windows software so I am sure AgileBits is ready to help you on that as I do not know their Windows policy

Robert Mills

My wife and daughter both have their own apple ID's. Will there be a problem with a with a single purchase.



I appreciate someone finally responding.

hmurchison

[quote name='Robert Mills' timestamp='1315647424' post='47046']

My wife and daughter both have their own apple ID's. Will there be a problem with a with a single purchase.



I appreciate someone finally responding.

[/quote]



Robert you can still choose to install 1PW from the MAS version by logging into your daughter and wife's Mac App Store and downloading. The only time

they would be prompted to re-enter your password would be when the app gets updated. Daily use would be the same as what they have now.

spudmac

Hello Everyone,



I'm very new to 1password, a first time poster with a question. I downloaded 1password to try for the 30 days and I must say I've become quite attached. I have to make a decision whether to buy or not within 6 days or remove some items to get to 20. I'm not ready to jump to Lion (on Snow Leopard). When/If I purchase, I would be buying the Family Pack. The part I'm waffling over is the $69.99 for the Family Pack direct from Agilebits. I'd be shelling out the cash for a program that is at the end of its current version life. Then at some point in the future we'll be moving to Lion and will have to re-buy (at double the current price on the MAS of $19.99. I realize that going to Lion and the MAS it will cost me about $60, but as stated we are not ready to go to Lion (will probably be there in another couple of months). I take it there is no price reduction for those who want to stay with version 3.8.X.. Any advice/comments are appreciated.... in other words, anyone in a similar situation and what are your thoughts.



Spudmac

benfdc

[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1315645806' post='47034']

Robert



1 copy of the MAS version is all you need to purchase to install on your computers.

[/quote]

Sorry, but that is completely non-responsive.



I can install 1P/Mac 3.8 on 50 computers, but if I have a single-user license then nobody else can run the software. 1P has always been licensed by user. I have a family license because it's cheaper than having one license for me and another one for my spouse.



The question here is whether 1P 3.9 is creating a third kind of license—an App Store license—that differs from either of the licenses that we have been familiar with in the past. And I have yet to see a clear answer to that question; it sure isn't in the [url="http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/8068-official-answers-1password-and-the-mac-app-store/"]OFFICIAL ANSWERS[/url] post.

hmurchison

@spudmac. You could choose to buy the 1PW MAS license from any Lion computer by logging into the MAS with your Apple ID and purchasing 1PW. This locks in the $20 pricing and gives you an upgrade to 4.0 for free when that comes out in the future. You wouldn't have to install it on your current Snow Leopard Macs but you would need to find a solution that's going to work out for your when your trial is complete.



@benfdc- Since Apple doesn't allow passwords on the MAS there's no way for an app to poll the network looking for apps running concurrently. Agile is taking a leap of faith with the MAS as are many other vendors in the hopes that they can expose more people to the wonderful product from the MAS.

roustem

Thank you, hmurchison, for answering the questions!



I am setting up a [url="https://onepassword-osx.tenderapp.com/kb/purchasing/i-have-multiple-macs-do-i-need-to-purchase-1password-more-than-once"]knowledge base article[/url] about this. Please let me know if there is anything I need to add.

Tripp

roustem,



[b]Are there family pack licensing options in the App Store?[/b]

No, apps are purchased for and owned by a user linked to a single Apple ID. But if you log in with that ID on all the Macs in your household, you can download and install your apps on each one.





The above quote from your "[url="https://onepassword-osx.tenderapp.com/kb/purchasing/i-have-multiple-macs-do-i-need-to-purchase-1password-more-than-once"]knowledge base article[/url]" is all well and good except that most of the other computers at our house have their own accounts. What happens when an update is needed? Will all programs from the MAS get updated no matter who's account was used to instal a particular program? Or will the whole darn thing freeze up? Or will it update some and not some others depending on who's account was used to instal a particular program?

Thanks, Tripp



PS: You might say that these are not Agile issues and you would be partially correct, except for the fact that you have taken a bite of this apple (pardon the pun-couldn't help myself) by trying to use their cute little experiment.

There is a lot that could be said in favor of the MAS idea, but I find that it is really an amateur attempt so far. Very similar to the iTunes App Store. But with bigger repercussions for those of us with bigger computers than we can hold in the palm of our hand and larger issues with our security. This is why we purchased 1Password in the first place.

I find it frustrating that you have simultaneously moved to the MAS and abandoned your own store and downloads and update system. They did not need to be done simultaneously. I see many developers who keep their current system operating and then add the MAS for those who like that idea. I do understand that it is much easier and convenient for you to do this, but will this outweigh the cost to the customer. And who will move away to other apps?

roustem

Tripp,



You can install apps with different accounts on the same Mac. My son has his own Apple account but I am installing some of my apps on his Mac without a problem.



Our store and downloads page are still up and running.

Tripp

roustem,



Thanks for the quick reply.



"You can install apps with different accounts on the same Mac. My son has his own Apple account but I am installing some of my apps on his Mac without a problem." (roustem)



But will they update properly? Are the extensions and the application updated through different mechanisms.



Thanks, Tripp

Tripp

roustem,





another thought:

"Our store and downloads page are still up and running."





But it appears that version will not be on your site. Is that correct?



Thanks, Tripp

roustem

[quote name='Tripp' timestamp='1315685533' post='47389']

roustem,



Thanks for the quick reply.



"You can install apps with different accounts on the same Mac. My son has his own Apple account but I am installing some of my apps on his Mac without a problem." (roustem)



But will they update properly? Are the extensions and the application updated through different mechanisms.



Thanks, Tripp

[/quote]





The extensions are now updated separately from the main application. The extensions are distributed for free and there is no license or app store receipt check there.



The Mac App Store will update without a problem. The only inconvenience there is that you will need to enter the same Apple account ID and password to update.

Tripp

roustem,



sorry, meant to say:

But it appears that version 4 will not be on your site. Is that correct?



Tripp

Tripp

[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315685776' post='47395']







The Mac App Store will update without a problem. The only inconvenience there is that you will need to enter the same Apple account ID and password to update.

[/quote]



This sounds a little funky to me. What if I am out of town? Which I am for several months of the year. And it is an important or security update?



Tripp

roustem

My wife simply knows my App Store password. And with my son I can always use Screen Sharing.

Tripp

[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315686175' post='47402']

My wife simply knows my App Store password. And with my son I can always use Screen Sharing.

[/quote]



How will anyone know they even need an update if they are not logged in as me.



Tripp

[Deleted User]

Tripp,



I need to double check this, but I think the App Store will tell you if there's updates for all apps, it just won't let you install the updates without being signed into the account in question.

xairbusdriver

I have a friend, in another forum, who is asking a question about 1P that I can't fathom out. It involves "family" usage, so I'm posting here.



QUESTION: Can 1P be used by [b]more than one person[/b] (different log-in accounts) on the [b]same[/b] computer?

This is not the same as everybody using different computers, of course, just [i]different accounts[/i] on the [i]same computer[/i].



Leaving aside the question of updating (which I [i]THINK[/i] would not be a problem), the following statement from the "What's new in 3.9" section seems to say multiple users, even in different accounts, cannot be done.[quote]Only one (1) 1Password data file allowed. You cannot switch between data files dynamically, either through 1Password preferences or by using the Finder.[/quote]It's seems counter-intuitive to say only one data file can be used and then talk about switching between more than one! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/emoticon-0170-headbang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='(banghead)' /> But then, I'm easily confused... <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':confused:' />



OTOH, is the data file written [i][b]IN[/b][/i] the app's 'package' or in the 'sandbox' or Dropbox folder? Does each user/account actually have her own 'sand box' or Dropbox folder?



I'm asking this because I feel responsible for this 'sale' since I've praised 1P many times on the forum where this fellow asked.



Thanks!

xairbusdriver

Perhaps I've found an answer to my friends question. In the section on how to install the MAS version when already using the 3.8.x version, there is this text:[quote]The important thing to keep in mind is that the Mac App Store version is sandboxed and has very limited access to your file system. It can only store data in its Container folder (~/Library/Containers/com.agilebits.onepassword-osx-helper/Data/Documents/1Password.agilekeychain) or in Dropbox.[/quote]

As I understand that path, it means that any/every/all accounts/users on a single machine could have their now container/datafile/sandbox. Is that correct? Or did I waste my time 45 years ago with a minor in English?! LOL!

roustem

[quote name='xairbusdriver' timestamp='1315700193' post='47520']

Perhaps I've found an answer to my friends question. In the section on how to install the MAS version when already using the 3.8.x version, there is this text:

As I understand that path, it means that any/every/all accounts/users on a single machine could have their now container/datafile/sandbox. Is that correct? Or did I waste my time 45 years ago with a minor in English?! LOL!

[/quote]



It is correct. I am just not sure if it is any different from 1Password 3.8 in this case. The '~' in the path means that it is stored in the current user's home folder — every user will have his own file.



I was also able to use the same copy of 1Password under a different user after purchasing it once from the Mac App Store. Overall, it seems that Mac App Store is much more flexible when it comes to Family/Multi-user set up.

benfdc

Question is still not being answered.



Suppose I, my wife, and my son each have Macs, and we each have user accounts on each other's Macs. I have a license for 1P/Mac 3.8, and I can install 1P 3.8 on each of the three Macs.



Can my wife and son use 1P? No, not unless they have their own licenses OR unless my license is a family license.



Now suppose that I purchase 3.9 through the App Store. I can put it on all three Macs because they are all authorized to my Apple ID. Can my wife use it? Can my son use it? Can Joe Schmo use it in a Guest account?



This can cut the other way too. Suppose I'm visiting Cousin Itt in Kansas City. If I have a license for 1Password 3.8, I can install 1P on his Mac with my license code. But if all I have is 3.9, I think I'm out of luck unless he owns 1P too, because his Mac isn't authorized to my Apple ID.



Am I completely off-base here?

Ben

[quote name='benfdc' timestamp='1315709636' post='47570']

Question is still not being answered.



Suppose I, my wife, and my son each have Macs, and we each have user accounts on each other's Macs. I have a license for 1P/Mac 3.8, and I can install 1P 3.8 on each of the three Macs.



Can my wife and son use 1P? No, not unless they have their own licenses OR unless my license is a family license.



Now suppose that I purchase 3.9 through the App Store. I can put it on all three Macs because they are all authorized to my Apple ID. Can my wife use it? Can my son use it? Can Joe Schmo use it in a Guest account?



This can cut the other way too. Suppose I'm visiting Cousin Itt in Kansas City. If I have a license for 1Password 3.8, I can install 1P on his Mac with my license code. But if all I have is 3.9, I think I'm out of luck unless he owns 1P too, because his Mac isn't authorized to my Apple ID.



Am I completely off-base here?

[/quote]



You can install MAS apps on any computers that you trust typing your password into. Note that in order to do app upgrades, you'll have to type your password again. This really cuts down on people installing it for people they don't live with, while only being a very minor inconvenience for installing it for people you do live with, who don't share an Apple ID (and no inconvenience at all if you do share an Apple ID).



It's really the honor system, much the same as our current licensing is. There is no technical restriction now from stopping everyone in your house from using 1Password on the computers you install it on if you use a single user license. The same is true with MAS. Everyone you install it for can use it, and will have their own set of data (unless they share a Dropbox account).

benfdc

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315710311' post='47576']



You can install MAS apps on any computers that you trust typing your password into. Note that in order to do app upgrades, you'll have to type your password again. This really cuts down on people installing it for people they don't live with, while only being a very minor inconvenience for installing it for people you do live with, who don't share an Apple ID (and no inconvenience at all if you do share an Apple ID).



It's really the honor system, much the same as our current licensing is. There is no technical restriction now from stopping everyone in your house from using 1Password on the computers you install it on if you use a single user license. The same is true with MAS. Everyone you install it for can use it, and will have their own set of data (unless they share a Dropbox account).

[/quote]

Well, let's assume for the purposes of this discussion that we Bens are all honorable people.



I now see that, unlike the iTunes store, there is no limit to the number of Macs that I can authorize with my Apple ID to the Mac App Store. So I guess that means I can use 1P on Cousin Itt's Mac *if* [s]Itt[/s] it is running Lion. I'll still want to keep a legacy version of 1P on my flash drive for use on pre-Lion Macs.



It took me a while, but I finally found Apple's [url="http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/terms.html#APPS"]Mac App Store License[/url]. Here's what look to me like the relevant provisions:



[quote name='MAC APP STORE PRODUCT USAGE RULES']

Except as otherwise set forth herein,



(i) You may download and use an application from the Mac App Store (“Mac App Store Product”) for personal, non-commercial use on any Apple-branded products running Mac OS X (“Mac Computer”) that you own or control.



(ii) If you are a commercial enterprise or educational institution, you may download a Mac App Store Product for use by either (a) a single individual on each of the Mac Computer(s) used by that individual that you own or control or ( b ) multiple individuals on a single shared Mac Computer that you own or control. For example, a single employee may use a Mac App Store Product on both the employee’s desktop Mac Computer and laptop Mac Computer, or multiple students may serially use a Mac App Store Product on a single Mac Computer located at a resource center or library. For the sake of clarity, each Mac Computer used serially by multiple users requires a separate license.



(iii) Use may require sign-in with the Apple ID used to download the Mac App Store Product from the Mac App Store. Mac App Store Products can be updated through the Mac App Store only.[/quote]

Section (ii) applies to commercial use, and it's pretty clear, but it's not my situation. I do wonder how it would work, though. It's not as though the App Store gives me the choice of installing my app into /Applications or ~/Applications.



You mention that the requirement to sign in with an Apple ID to update an app represents a constraint on indiscriminate use. If I am reading (iii) correctly, an app *can* require an Apple ID sign-on with every launch. I guess that would be something like a single user license. It'd certainly prevent Cousin Itt from using my copy of 1P/Mac. I wonder what would happen if Cousin Itt then purchased [s]its[/s] Itt's own single-user license for 1P. Would either of our Apple IDs now activate the program?



And does the Apple allow AgileBits to sell two versions of 1P through the Mac App Store, one that requires Apple ID authentication on each launch and one that will give any user of a Mac on which it is installed unfettered use of the program?



Questions, questions!



I'm a Haverford grad, so I'm good with that whole [url="http://students.haverford.edu/code/code.html"]honor code[/url] thing. But the clearer the rules are, the easier they will be for me to follow.

MacMacken

[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315685776' post='47395']The Mac App Store will update without a problem. The only inconvenience there is that you will need to enter the same Apple account ID and password to update.[/quote]

The Mac App Store app will only inform you about an available upgrade if you are running the app with the icon visible in the Dock and if you are logged in with the Apple ID you used to 'buy' the app. Using more than one Apple ID for software 'purchases' is therefore not recommendable except if you like to manually log in and out of your Apple IDs in the Mac App Store all the time just to keep track of available updates …

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the info, Ken.



I've been thinking about this for my own setup at home and I'm tempted to setup a shared Apple ID myself and my parents to use for app purchases. That said, once I installed 1Password on the Mac Mini we use with my Apple ID they could use the app without any issues in their user accounts and without having to authenticate with my Apple ID.

Bruce_F

I'm the one who xairbusdriver spoke about. I figured there must be a way to share 1Password with another user but I didn't quite know how to achieve that.

I had trouble with the initial install where my "new" user password would not work.

I used Terminal to run the command line: (chmod -N /var/db/launchd.db/com.apple.launchd.peruser.`id -u`/overrides.plist) which corrected the problem. I used the same technique on my wife's user login.



The password is the same with both users. DropBox created a unique file for each user.

benfdc

Just noticed [url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password3/end_user_license_agreement.html"]the 1P3/Mac EULA on your website[/url]. It talks quite a bit about serial numbers. It makes no reference to the Mac App Store EULA. Not sure it even applies to 3.9, but there's nothing there saying that it doesn't.