Family License and MAS version

Manaburner

Hi there,



I'm currently owning a Family license. Now that 1Password is MAS only (or is at least planned to be, in the future) how do you handle the Family license model? The Macs in my household are not using the same iTunes Account and certainly will never be using the same.



My suggestion is: to every user that has a Family license currently and buys the MAS version, give them promo codes for the remaining 4 users so that 1Password could be installed on the other computers. That doesn't necessarily mean those promo codes have to be for free but let's say $2 each, for example.



Regards,

Michael

madnil

We are in the same situation. Our family license is used by 4 members with 4 different Apple-IDs. Does this mean, we have to buy 4 MAS licenses?

MikeT

Hi guys,



As long as you use the same AppleID, you can download the app again for free on the other machines. Please note that the Mac App Store does allow you to sign out and sign in with a different AppleID.



The family licenses are no longer valid with the Mac App Store, one purchase is all you need to share with your family. As for the idea of selling promo codes, that's against the rules of Mac App Store and even if we could do this, there is no way to generate any number of codes, only Apple can give us those codes and they are very limited.

tom_tav

You dont get it, do you?



On our computers we have different iTunes & AppleID accounts. Dont like to see my sister buying movies on my credit card. Thats what the family license was for.



So you screw us by telling "put your family license to a dark place"!? And to buy the software again for every AppleID (its just update price, you get v 4.x free, blah blah blah). Oh no, i forgot the next one: "youre free to change your infrastructure, payment and apple accounts just to get the same what you have now". Uh, the last one: "you still can use the (buggy) 3.8 software if you like to"



Put it in other words: "You guys with family licences are screwed. No updates anymore. Just buy the new 4.0 software. If you buy it now its cheaper. But sorry, no upgrade"



Great customer service and marketing strategy....

hmurchison

Tom_tav



The current scenario is no different than today's method of sharing apps that have been purchased on a two or more different Apple ID. You simply need to choose which Apple ID account purchases the 1PW application. Then log into every computer in your home that runs the Mac App Store with this Apple ID and install the app. Then log back out.



The only time you will be asked to provide login credentials is when you need to do an upgrade.



In reality the Mac App Store has fundamentally reduced revenue for software developers who previously sold Family Pack Licenses. They now potentially get a fraction of the money that they would have under the previously serialized licensing scheme.



I commend Agile and others for doing this against their own financial interests.

Ben

Thanks for the assist hmurchison. This sums it up pretty well. Family licenses were always sold for up to 5 family members living under the same roof. The former part we were pretty lose on (what actually constitutes a family member) so long as the latter was pretty solid (living under the same roof). MAS still provides for this, except for even less money (i.e. getting the benefits of a family license but for a single user price).



Tom_Tav,



These forums are rated G as folks of all ages use 1Password. Please keep that in mind when composing your replies. I understand your frustration, but that's no reason to phrase your posts with language you wouldn't want a 12 year old reading. Hopefully we've addressed your concern, but if not feel free to reply and we will try to clarify.

onemorelogin

[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1315611409' post='46858']

Tom_tav



The current scenario is no different than today's method of sharing apps that have been purchased on a two or more different Apple ID. You simply need to choose which Apple ID account purchases the 1PW application. Then log into every computer in your home that runs the Mac App Store with this Apple ID and install the app. Then log back out.



The only time you will be asked to provide login credentials is when you need to do an upgrade.

[/quote]



This would be a real pain for people who use individual Apple IDs. Every time an app (like 1Password) needs to be upgraded, the person whose account was used would have to go to the other computers, login, update and logout. It's more than being a "little messy", I'd say, and more so for an app that is well supported and receives frequent updates.





[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1315611409' post='46858']

In reality the Mac App Store has fundamentally reduced revenue for software developers who previously sold Family Pack Licenses. They now potentially get a fraction of the money that they would have under the previously serialized licensing scheme.



I commend Agile and others for doing this against their own financial interests.

[/quote]



Well, this sounds very benevolent, but the reason developers are moving to the App Store is to gain a wider audience to buy their products. I don't believe that Agile Bits would actually lose revenue after moving to the App Store compared to the earlier model. The high increase in exposure to a wider customer base would only help increase revenues manifold compared to the existing model. That's the main reason it's even up on MAS. Maybe Agile Bits would also set a record like Pixelmator did when it moved to MAS and made a million dollars in revenue within a very short time - something they took a long time to do before MAS.



The only argument that could possibly be made out of this is that the "cost of product support" would increase (old family license supporting 5 users and the MAS license supporting 10 computers, along with maintaining two versions of the app for every release). But that's a far stretch if you consider that the average number of users for family licenses would be around 3-4.



If Agile Bits were concerned about losing revenue as you state, they could put up their apps on MAS and also sell on the Agile Bits website like they've been doing all along. It's not like they don't have the infrastructure to sell on agilebits and manage licenses, although there would be a minor cost increase in having both.



There are many developers who sell both on their websites as well as MAS in order to provide the choice to the end user as far as licensing and purchasing modes are concerned.



In my opinion, there are one of two things Agile Bits could do to remedy this situation (both involving providing the apps on MAS and on the agilebits website):

1. Provide the app on the agilebits website and on MAS at the same price. This will keep existing customers who have been singing praises of 1Password and promoting it around very happy. The goodwill maintained would help agilebits since existing customers recommending it may drive new users to MAS as well.



2. Provide the app on the agilebits website at a slightly higher cost to cover the expenses of running the purchase and licensing infrastructure. The MAS version would be slightly cheaper since Apple takes care of the bandwidth and distribution costs for all updates (so even with a 30% cut in the received revenue, agilebits would probably save on the infrastructure cost - helpful for an app like 1Password that receives frequent updates). The higher expense is just a guess on my part since I have no idea about the actual costs on either side.

hmurchison

[quote name='onemorelogin' timestamp='1315635101' post='46991']



This would be a real pain for people who use individual Apple IDs. Every time an app (like 1Password) needs to be upgraded, the person whose account was used would have to go to the other computers, login, update and logout. It's more than being a "little messy", I'd say, and more so for an app that is well supported and receives frequent updates.



[/quote]



Out of your 3 steps remove two of them and you've got it. The App Store will simply pop up the same alert that it always does with the difference being say johndoe@me.com versus janedoe@me.com and an empty password field. Thus, a simple password would be all it took to update the computer in question.



[quote name='onemorelogin' timestamp='1315635101' post='46991']

Well, this sounds very benevolent, but the reason developers are moving to the App Store is to gain a wider audience to buy their products. I don't believe that Agile Bits would actually lose revenue after moving to the App Store compared to the earlier model. The high increase in exposure to a wider customer base would only help increase revenues manifold compared to the existing model. That's the main reason it's even up on MAS. Maybe Agile Bits would also set a record like Pixelmator did when it moved to MAS and made a million dollars in revenue within a very short time - something they took a long time to do before MAS.



The only argument that could possibly be made out of this is that the "cost of product support" would increase (old family license supporting 5 users and the MAS license supporting 10 computers, along with maintaining two versions of the app for every release). But that's a far stretch if you consider that the average number of users for family licenses would be around 3-4.



If Agile Bits were concerned about losing revenue as you state, they could put up their apps on MAS and also sell on the Agile Bits website like they've been doing all along. It's not like they don't have the infrastructure to sell on agilebits and manage licenses, although there would be a minor cost increase in having both.



There are many developers who sell both on their websites as well as MAS in order to provide the choice to the end user as far as licensing and purchasing modes are concerned.



In my opinion, there are one of two things Agile Bits could do to remedy this situation (both involving providing the apps on MAS and on the agilebits website):

1. Provide the app on the agilebits website and on MAS at the same price. This will keep existing customers who have been singing praises of 1Password and promoting it around very happy. The goodwill maintained would help agilebits since existing customers recommending it may drive new users to MAS as well.



2. Provide the app on the agilebits website at a slightly higher cost to cover the expenses of running the purchase and licensing infrastructure. The MAS version would be slightly cheaper since Apple takes care of the bandwidth and distribution costs for all updates (so even with a 30% cut in the received revenue, agilebits would probably save on the infrastructure cost - helpful for an app like 1Password that receives frequent updates). The higher expense is just a guess on my part since I have no idea about the actual costs on either side.



[/quote]



1. The issue here is that it still creates two separate apps to keep track of, keep in sync and beta test. The Agile team is already working pretty long hours to stay in front of browser changes, OS changes and mobile development. I could see forking the app if the demand was there but i'm guessing that it's really only 10% of 1PW users that have an issue with the MAS for distribution. Most arguments against the MAS version seem fueled by some intrinsic fear or hatred of losing the ability to tweak or incessantly update. Even in this thread the largest issue with not having a family pack is simply inserting a different password when prompted.



2. The outcry would be deafening. Asking any user to pay more money because of the distribution differences in an app is a recipe for disaster





I'm going to guess that Agile makes this a game time decision. As they develop 1PW 4.0 they will begin to learn more about who's using their product and from where there sales are coming from. If a vast majority of people utilize the Mac App Store for purchases they will likely keep their planned policy of exclusive distribution if it's more balanced they may go the forked route.



I think MAS haters are salmon swimming up stream. Lion hasn't even been out a year and Apple,Adobe, Omnigroup, Agile and many other vendors are already there. Microsoft has already been rumored to be working on a similar store for Windows 8. This is really how the nextgen software distribution is going to be done. Agile will be able to hold on a bit but it makes more sense in the end to let Apple and Microsoft distribute your product on their stores and let your team focus on hitting all the hot markets.



It's going to be an interesting next 12 months.

madnil

[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1315644534' post='47026']

The App Store will simply pop up the same alert that it always does with the difference being say johndoe@me.com versus janedoe@me.com and an empty password field. Thus, a simple password would be all it took to update the computer in question.

[/quote]



I'm okay with this method, although it means I have to do the updates for my family members (I really don't want to reveal my password to them).



I assume this doesn't go against any regulations by Apple (leading to the "dark side"). On iOS you can change your Apple ID only every 90 days. Hopefully, Apple won't implement such a restriction in their OS X.

Manaburner

Hi,



well if the Apple ID is only needed for updates I can live with that. Just bought it btw.





Regards,

Michael

alanshutko

[quote name='madnil' timestamp='1315650654' post='47060']

I assume this doesn't go against any regulations by Apple (leading to the "dark side"). On iOS you can change your Apple ID only every 90 days. Hopefully, Apple won't implement such a restriction in their OS X.

[/quote]



That restriction is, as far as I know, only for iCloud. (Right now, the only released functionality is the automatic downloading of stuff you've purchased.) For iOS, you've been able to put applications on your device from different Apple IDs for since the App Store opened, and it doesn't require you to associate your Apple ID with a device. You just copy the app to another iTunes library, it will ask you for the purchasing apple id password to authorize it, and then you're golden until you need to upgrade.



I suspect the 90-day limitation is something driven by record labels for iCloud, so it will likely not limit your ability to work with apps. It just means there's some additional hassle required.

tom_tav

Its easy. Honest people like us who bought a Family license (instead of just installing the app on all computers) are screwed. Read your old license an you see ... 5 computers, same household. No limitation of having just one Apple ID.



Yes one part of the story is to blame you for not offering a good solution.



Other part of the story is to force you as a developer to put more pressure on apple, to adapt the app store to a more professional standard (trials, crossgrades, multiple licenses,...)

vmasterson

So, I've read all of the above and I'm still not sure I understand enough to pick a course of action.



I've been a 1Password user for several years now and run my copy (currently Version 3.8.6) on my account on a single iMac. Now I want to give my wife's account on the same machine the same 1Password privileges I have. But I'm not yet ready to upgrade to Lion (and thus not ready to upgrade to 1Password 3.9), so I would have to pay $48.99 to upgrade to the Family License for my existing version, then pay the MAS another $24.99 to upgrade to 3.9 when Lion (and 3.9) becomes stable, then pay another $??.?? to upgrade to 4.0 when that arrives?



Did I get all that right?



If so, I think the sensible course for me to follow is to simply wait for 4.0 to arrive and do it all then. In the meantime, I can live with what I have right now, and the wife can use my account if she needs to.



By the way, would anyone hazard an estimate of when we might see 4.0 arrive?



Vince Masterson

hmurchison

[quote name='tom_tav' timestamp='1315926784' post='48601']

Its easy. Honest people like us who bought a Family license (instead of just installing the app on all computers) are screwed. Read your old license an you see ... 5 computers, same household. No limitation of having just one Apple ID.



Yes one part of the story is to blame you for not offering a good solution.



Other part of the story is to force you as a developer to put more pressure on apple, to adapt the app store to a more professional standard (trials, crossgrades, multiple licenses,...)

[/quote]



You're not even being realistic. Apple is the largest company in the world (on a given day when they and Exxon mobile swap overall stock value). How exactly is Agile going to

dictate terms to Apple? The only thing they can do if the situation is unacceptable is to sell through their site.



Family licenses are for a single household family. If it's too much of a bother create another Apple ID just for the family and give everyone the password for updates. I think people are making far too much of an issue out of this.



If you have trust issues within your family and do not wish to give out passwords Agile is unlikely to be able to help there.

thightower

[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1316817789' post='51171']

create another Apple ID just for the family and give everyone the password for updates.

[/quote]



Works wonders for us, tho I have to admit I have slowly started using separate apple ids and will continue to move that way.

khad

With regard to the Mac App Store, here is what the [url="http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/terms.html#APPS"]license terms[/url] specify (emphasis added):



[quote]



MAC APP STORE PRODUCT USAGE RULES



Except as otherwise set forth herein,



(i) [b]You may download and use an application from the Mac App Store (“Mac App Store Product”) for personal, non-commercial use on any Apple-branded products running Mac OS X (“Mac Computer”) that you own or control.[/b]



(ii) If you are a commercial enterprise or educational institution, you may download a Mac App Store Product for use by either (a) a single individual on each of the Mac Computer(s) used by that individual that you own or control or ( b ) multiple individuals on a single shared Mac Computer that you own or control. For example, [b]a single employee may use a Mac App Store Product on both the employee’s desktop Mac Computer and laptop Mac Computer[/b], or multiple students may serially use a Mac App Store Product on a single Mac Computer located at a resource center or library. [b]For the sake of clarity, each Mac Computer used serially by multiple users requires a separate license.[/b]



(iii) Use may require sign-in with the Apple ID used to download the Mac App Store Product from the Mac App Store. Mac App Store Products can be updated through the Mac App Store only.[/quote]



Further clarification from the [url="http://www.macworld.com/article/156962/2011/01/mac_app_store_faq.html"]Macworld Mac App Store FAQ[/url]:



[b]Can I buy an app on one Mac for use on all my computers?[/b]

Yes, you can install apps bought from the Mac App Store on [b]any and every Mac[/b] that you personally own and use.



[b]What about the five-Mac restriction that I have with videos I bought from iTunes? Does that work for Apps too?[/b]

No.[b] Apps don't check to see if you've using an iTunes-authorized Mac.[/b] They can ask you to verify your Apple ID and password, but that's a single check and it's just to verify you are who you say you are. Once your identity is verified, that's it. There's no authorizing or deauthorizing or counting of different Macs.



[b]Does that mean I could buy one copy of an app and install it on every Mac in my business?[/b]

No, the license you agree to when you enter the Mac App Store says that app downloads are for Macs that you personally own, and that's a license for personal use. Apps that are intended for business and professional use are licensed differently, typically to you or for a single computer, but used by several people. While there's no technical impediment to you installing them on multiple Macs at work, you'll be violating the license agreement. It's the same scenario as if you buy a single-user copy of iWork and install it on ten Macs at work—you can do it, but you're violating the license agreement, making the act ethically questionable.



[b]Are there family pack licensing options in the App Store?[/b]

No, apps are purchased for and owned by a user linked to a single Apple ID. [b]But if you log in with that ID on all the Macs in your household, you can download and install your apps on each one.[/b]





I hope that helps. Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.



Cheers!