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Mac export interchange file not recognized by windows.
Comments
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Nigel,
Can you contact me off-list, please?
stefan AT agilebits DOT com
Thanks, Stefan.Flag 0 -
Welcome to the forum, Nigel!
It would be interesting to know in what way 1Password for Windows isn't recognizing the 1PIF file.
For example:[list=1]
[*]Are you attempting to import it, using the [b]File[/b] > [b]Import[/b] command?
[*]Are you able to import some, but not all, of its contents?
[*]What steps are you taking in 1Password, and what is 1Password reporting?
[/list]
It's great that you'll be working with Stefan directly—no one knows 1Password like he does!—but the rest of us would love to hear how the problems looks to you [i]and[/i] how it's solved, so that we can benefit from it, too.
Thanks!Flag 0 -
Just ran into this myself yesterday. Was setting my mother-in-law up with 1P/Win, and wanted to pre-load her keychain with a few things (grandchildren's SSNs and the like). Exported a 1PIF from my Mac (Version 3.8.10 (build 31186)) to my flash drive, ejected the drive and plugged it into her PC, tried to File > Import the data.1pif file, and got "0 Items Imported" message.
After trying two more times and getting nowhere, I went back to my Mac, launched 1P in the Guest account, created a keychain, imported the 1PIF file, and then copied that keychain to her PC via my flash drive. *That* worked like a charm.Flag 0 -
[quote name='benfdc' timestamp='1322318567' post='54457']
Just ran into this myself yesterday. Was setting my mother-in-law up with 1P/Win, and wanted to pre-load her keychain with a few things (grandchildren's SSNs and the like). Exported a 1PIF from my Mac (Version 3.8.10 (build 31186)) to my flash drive, ejected the drive and plugged it into her PC, tried to File > Import the data.1pif file, and got "0 Items Imported" message.
[/quote]
Are you sure your 1PIF contains *login* items? 1Password for Windows imports login items *only* (no wallet items, no identities, etc)Flag 0 -
Good catch, Stefan!
benfdc, I should've noticed that you mentioned only "grandchildren's SSNs and the like." As documented, 1Password for Windows imports only Login items, even from 1PIF files:
[indent=1][i][url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password_Windows/import-data.html"]How do I import data into 1Password for Windows?[/url][/i][/indent]
I hope we'll improve our import and export capabilities in a future version of 1Password for Windows. Thanks for your patience!Flag 0 -
"As documented"? I don't think so. I searched for the word "only" on that page, and it ain't there. What's more, the first sentence is completely misleading. Dropbox isn't "the best way" to SHARE data because it isn't a way to share data at all. Dropbox can only be used to SYNC one's own keychain between devices. So far as I can tell, the only ways for a Mac user to SHARE non-login 1Password data with a Windows user are to move the Windows user's keychain to a Mac, let the Windows user import the 1PIF file, and copy the keychain back to Windows, or else to export an encrypted HTML file and let the Windows user copy-and-paste the exported items into his or her keychain manually.
Until 1P/Win's File > Import capabilities are enhanced, the menu item should be File > Import Logins. Also, the import report should give users a MEANINGFUL error message when non-login items in 1PIF files are skipped, or, even better, warn users before executing an import if non-login items are detected in the 1PIF file. On a related point, I don't know whether 1P/Win imports tags, but if it doesn't then there should be a warning that tags were detected in the 1PIF file and will be lost. I know that 1P/Win doesn't DISPLAY tags, but that is precisely why the warning is necessary: a Windows user can't easily tell whether tags are being stripped during import or not.
The way things are now, it's almost as though AgileBits is TRYING to trip up users. I know that that's not really what is happening, but that doesn't make it any less aggravating.
I think there was one login in my batch of imports, but I could be wrong. In any event, had I been aware of this limitation I would not have bothered trying to import my 1PIF file into 1P/Win in the first place, but would have created my mother-in-law's "starter" keychain in 1P/Mac from the get-go.
—Ben FFlag 0 -
[quote name='benfdc' timestamp='1322535883' post='54579']
"As documented"? I don't think so. I searched for the word "only" on that page, and it ain't there.[/quote]
I can tell you're upset, Ben, and I'm sorry about that; but the article says, "To import Logins formatted as 1Password Interchange Format (1PIF), delimited text, or Roboform’s “print to HTML” output, just choose [b]File[/b] > [b]Import[/b], select the appropriate format, and follow the instructions."
"To import Logins" is absolutely unambiguous. I'm sorry it doesn't include the word "only," but it wouldn't change the meaning of the sentence.
[quote]What's more, the first sentence is completely misleading. Dropbox isn't "the best way" to SHARE data because it isn't a way to share data at all.[/quote]
I'm sorry again, but that seems like quibbling. If you and I want to share 1Password data, we have a few choices: we can send each other a copy of our local [i].agilekeychain[/i] folders and carefully coordinate who has "control" of it at any given time so that the other one doesn't add or delete or edit any items, or I can send you my Dropbox account credentials. In both cases, we're sharing data; with Dropbox, we're also sync'ing data (and it's automatic, secure, and dependable).
Another advantage of Dropbox is that it allows us to share and sync all types of 1Password items, whereas any other method (including the import and export features built into 1Password) limit us (on the PC side) to importing Logins...as documented in the user's guide.
[quote]Dropbox can only be used to SYNC one's own keychain between devices. So far as I can tell, the only ways for a Mac user to SHARE non-login 1Password data with a Windows user are to move the Windows user's keychain to a Mac, let the [u]Windows[/u] user import the 1PIF file, and copy the keychain back to Windows, or else to export an encrypted HTML file and let the Windows user copy-and-paste the exported items into his or her keychain manually.[/quote]
Do you mean the Mac user? If not, I'm completely lost.
That's OK, though, because I still don't understand how sync'ing data can be considered not to include (by definition) sharing that data.
[quote]Until 1P/Win's File > Import capabilities are enhanced, the menu item should be File > Import Logins. Also, the import report should give users a MEANINGFUL error message when non-login items in 1PIF files are skipped, or, even better, warn users before executing an import if non-login items are detected in the 1PIF file.[/quote]
I believe 1Password for Windows eventually will include more robust import and export capabilities. I've been advocating that for many months. When it does, I'll happily update the user's guide to document the new behavior.
[quote]On a related point, I don't know whether 1P/Win imports tags, but if it doesn't then there should be a warning that tags were detected in the 1PIF file and will be lost. I know that 1P/Win doesn't DISPLAY tags, but that is precisely why the warning is necessary: a Windows user can't easily tell whether tags are being stripped during import or not.[/quote]
1Password for Windows currently does not include tags. It [i]preserves[/i] existing tag information, so that tags not lost for use on the Mac; but there is no interface at this time for adding, removing, or viewing tags in 1Password for Windows. 1Password for Windows was written from scratch to run in Windows—it is not simply a "port" of 1Password for Mac. They will always "hopscotch" each other in terms of features. Note that 1Password for Windows is about four years less mature than 1Password for Mac, even though it has a few features that 1Password does not.
[quote]The way things are now, it's almost as though AgileBits is TRYING to trip up users. I know that that's not really what is happening, but that doesn't make it any less aggravating.[/quote]
I'm glad you don't thinks that the case. Again, though, we apologize for the inconvenience.
[quote]I think there was one login in my batch of imports, but I could be wrong. In any event, had I been aware of this limitation I would not have bothered trying to import my 1PIF file into 1P/Win in the first place, but would have created my mother-in-law's "starter" keychain in 1P/Mac from the get-go.[/quote]
I'm sorry to say it, Ben, but you'd have known about the import feature if you'd checked the user's guide. That topic has been in the FAQ section for many months.
The user's guide is there for a reason: it's how we [i]guide our users[/i] to the features of 1Password.
We recommend that new users take a few minutes to read the [url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password_Windows/introduction.html"][i]Introduction[/i][/url], [url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password_Windows/getting-started.html"][i]Getting Started[/i][/url], and [url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password_Windows/tutorials.html"][i]Tutorials[/i][/url] sections of the user's guide. They're short, and they'll give you the information you need to get up to speed quickly. As you use 1Password for Windows, we believe you'll find the [url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password_Windows/faqs.html"][i]FAQ[/i][/url] section to be a useful resource, too.Flag 0 -
David--
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on all counts. But while I don't see any benefit to repeating myself, I would like to say that I am nonplussed by your contention that, because the 1P/Win user guide contains a statement in a FAQ that login items can be imported, it's perfectly OK for the program itself to have a File > Import command and to not signal to the user in any way, shape or form that, of all of the data types that can be handled by 1P/Win, including those which 1P/Win can export to a 1PIF file ("Logins and other items" according to the [url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password_Windows/export-data.html"]Data Export FAQ[/url]), only one data type can be imported into another keychain by 1P/Win.
I also note that you never actually said whether 1P/Win preserves tags when importing login items from a 1PIF file exported from 1P/Mac. You merely stated things that are obvious by inspection, such as that 1P/Win neither displays tags nor allows them to be accessed or manipulated via the user interface. I suspect that the answer is that tags are discarded, but I don't intend to spend any time investigating the matter. This info isn't in the Data Import FAQ either.Flag 0 -
[quote name='DBrown' timestamp='1322553905' post='54587']
"To import Logins" is absolutely unambiguous. I'm sorry it doesn't include the word "only," but it wouldn't change the meaning of the sentence.
….
[Y]ou'd have known about the import feature if you'd checked the user's guide. That topic has been in the FAQ section for many months.
The user's guide is there for a reason: it's how we [i]guide our users[/i] to the features of 1Password.
[/quote]
I suppose [url="https://agilebits.com/onepassword/win/release_notes#v135"]the release notes for 1P/Win 1.0.0.135[/url] are absolutely unambiguous too, as it ought to be obvious to anyone from the context that [i]Fixed[/i] is being used in the same sense as in the sentence “My dog has been [i]fixed[/i].”:
[quote]
[color=#333333]Bug: during 1PIF import, non-login items (for example: identities) are imported as login items. Fixed.[/color]
[/quote]Flag 0 -
Ben, the reason the user's guide says you can export Logins and other items to a 1PIF file is that you [i]can[/i]. It's the same reason the user's guide says you can import Login items: because you [i]can[/i]. As far as I'm concerned, the documentation is unambiguous.
The release notes, too, are absolutely accurate. As of that build, non-Login items are no longer imported as Login items. That bug has been fixed.
I don't mean to suggest that the documentation and release notes are perfect, but no matter how they're written, [i]someone[/i] will be dissatisfied. ("Too wordy!" "Needs more details!") I believe unambiguous accuracy is a strategy, and I'm sticking with it.
I understand that you disagree, though, and I'm truly sorry that you're unhappy.Flag 0 -
[quote name='DBrown' timestamp='1322553905' post='54587']
I still don't understand how sync'ing data can be considered not to include (by definition) sharing that data.
[/quote]
Apparently you are not alone. I see that the latest release of 1P/Mac 3.8 drops the Export to Encrypted Web Page feature, with a comment in the release notes that "Users of this feature are encouraged to use 1PasswordAnywhere or the iOS edition of 1Password."
Export to Encrypted Web Page was the ONLY mechanism provided by 1Password to securely share information. Now it'll be gone as soon as I update from 3.8.10. But apparently that's not a problem, because I can still use 1PasswordAnywhere to securely share a few passwords or wallet items.
If nobody has written up a tutorial for the User Guide yet, please allow me to propose a draft:[list=1]
[*]Back up your keychain.
[*]Delete everything that you don't want to share.
[*]Empty the Trash.
[*]Change the master password.
[*]Upload your 1Password.agilekeychain to the web where your friend(s) can find it, or archive it and email it.
[*]Securely send your friend(s) the password that you created in step 4. Also, if you email your keychain to any Mac users who don't own 1Password, include an explanation of "Show Package Contents."
[*]Restore the keychain that you backed up in step 1.
[/list]
Need I point out that there have been [url="http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/4-feature-request-multiple-1password-keychains/"]pleas[/url] in the forums [url="http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/4008-feature-request-data-sharing/"]FOR[/url] [url="http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/4634-multi-user-dropbox-sync/"]YEARS[/url] to provide some mechanism for securely and selectively sharing passwords (I'd have provided more links but I don't know how to search for threads that have been inactive for over a year)? Because 1P can't juggle multiple keychains (this was never officially supported, but in recent releases it's become nigh-on impossible), Export to Encrypted Web Page was the best that 1Password could do. It was static, but it worked.
Dropping this feature before there is something else to replace it is a major disservice to your users, and the suggestions in the release notes, which propose alternatives that are not alternatives at all, strike me as disingenuous.Flag 0 -
David—
It relates to the topic in this way.
Export Selected > 1PIF provides a way to SHARE sensitive information with another person. Because 1P can't encrypt a 1PIF you have to find some other way to protect it (TrueCrypt, Knox, Disk Utility, whatever), but you can share it.
Your gloss in this thread on [url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password_Windows/import-data.html"]the Importing Data FAQ[/url], which you interpret as suggesting that Dropbox is the best way to share information, with 1PIF being a sort of poor cousin, suggests a failure to grasp the distinction, or the SIGNIFICANCE of the distinction, between synchronizing one's own information and sharing information with other people.
The suggestion in the 1P/Mac 3.8.11 release notes that 1PasswordAnywhere and 1Password for iOS can somehow substitute for the loss of Export Selected > Encrypted Web Page reflects the exact same defective reasoning as that exhibited in your posts in this thread.
Sorry to personalize this, but you started it by responding to me in this thread with what amounted to RTFM.
—BenFlag 0 -
I believe [i]Export > 1PIF[/i] is there primarily because we do not want to "lock in" our users. It exports everything in plain (non-encrypted) text, so that someone else (a competitor, for example) can import this. I do not believe this feature is for sharing. As a matter of fact, I would discourage going this route because 1PIF is unencrypted.Flag 0
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[quote name='benfdc' timestamp='1322744140' post='54760']
Sorry to personalize this, but you started it by responding to me in this thread with what amounted to RTFM.
[/quote]
I did no such thing, Ben, but I'm sorry you took it that way.
My [url="http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/8224-mac-export-interchange-file-not-recognized-by-windows/page__view__findpost__p__54559"]second[/url] reply to you was essentially that I had messed up by not noticing (as Stefan did) that you were trying to import something that wasn't a Login item and offering you (and anyone else who reads this thread) a link to the article where where we explain that 1Password imports only Login items, along with my assurance that I'm advocating for us to do better in future versions, a point I've made in numerous threads in these forums, because I believe our import and export features fall short of the mark.
As you seem not to like links, here are my actual words:
[quote name='DBrown' timestamp='1322520778' post='54559']
Good catch, Stefan!
benfdc, I should've noticed that you mentioned only "grandchildren's SSNs and the like." As documented, 1Password for Windows imports only Login items, even from 1PIF files:
[indent=1][i][url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password_Windows/import-data.html"]How do I import data into 1Password for Windows?[/url][/i][/indent]
I hope we'll improve our import and export capabilities in a future version of 1Password for Windows. Thanks for your patience!
[/quote]Flag 0 -
David:
The 1P/Win Export FAQ states that 1P/Win can export non-logins to a 1PIF. One exports things so that one can import them elsewhere. A 1P/Win user would quite naturally expect that 1P/Win can read from a 1PIF anything that it writes to a 1PIF. Because this is not the case, I believe that the Export FAQ ought to carry a clear notice to that effect.
I agree with you that the 1P/Win Import FAQ can be read to imply that 1P/Win cannot import non-login items from a 1PIF. I am an attorney, and I know how to closely read and carefully parse texts. I suggest to you, however, that the text is not free from ambiguity. I further suggest to you that this limitation is sufficiently important that it ought to be set forth clearly and explicitly.
My remaining point, which brings us back full circle, is that I do not believe that an explanation in a FAQ, no matter how clearly stated, can make up for the fact that the program itself tends to lead users astray. So long as 1P/Win can only import logins, I think that the menu command should be Import logins. And I think that it would be helpful to users if 1P/Win would alert them when items in a 1PIF are skipped during the import process. Windows is aggravating enough as it is. Not all Windows users are masochists. They deserve a break every now and then.
—Ben FFlag 0 -
We should either import those non-login items, or prompt some dialog that reports what items have not been imported. I have added this to my list of things to do.Flag 0
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Starting with 1.0.9.243, we're going to report what items we couldn't import.Flag 0
