Backup Problem Question

jodywoodcock

I have 1Password 3.9 from app store. I seem to be having problems with using backup and restore under the file menu.

System is iMac Intel Core 2 duo, OSX Lion 10.7.1.



I can select backup and it opens a finder directory showing the path and the folder for the backup. Also shows all other backups in the folder. Also shows a new backup file that was created a the time i selected backup.



Then I go to 1password and enter a new item. In this specific test I added a new credit card in the wallet and saved it.

Then I went and selected backup.



Before adding the new credit card, I went to Restore and it shows two files with todays date (when doing the backup it showed 5 files with todays date) at the end of the line it shows 11 items. I think this means there is 11 entries in 1password.



After adding and saving and then backing up, i went back into 1password and deleted the new entry. Then went back in and did a restore, selecting the file at the top of the list. After restoring I went back to 1password and the most recent entry i deleted was not restored. Also when looking at the enteries in the restore window the item count was still 11.



It would appear the backup was not actually done with the new entry. Not sure if I missed doing something or not.





Additionally, I have questions about deleting backups from the backup folder. Can I delete them?

I had 1password 3.8.x, (It was the most recent version from agile bit web site, not sure of number) was testing it and waiting for it to be available on the app store). So I had some older backups from that version.

I went into the backup folder and deleted all older files earlier than today.

Then when I went and tried to do a restore by selecting one of the files from today I got an error (sorry, did not write down error message). Went back and moved the files from the trash back into the Backup folder and tried Restore again and was able to restore.



Reading in the tutorials and faq's and remember reading that 1password would auto backup, is that still true with the app store version?



Can I or Can I not safely delete previous backups from the backup folder?



Does 1password delete these files after a certain number (think i read that it did after 30 files)



Thanks for any help available.

Jody

Ben

If you restore the backup, does it contain the item?



You can delete previous backups though generally we recommend leaving things that are working as they are. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

1Password will do an automatic daily backup and keep a months worth of backups.

jodywoodcock

No, when i do a restore the item i deleted is not there.



I tried it again this morning. I added the item. Did a backup. Menubar - File- Backup. A finder window opened showing the Backups folder. I had 23 items in it. Two backups from today. This is the filename of the most recent. (1Password 2011-09-15 113853 (12 items).agilekeychain_zip). Previous backup from before the test showed 11 items in the file name. After this closed the finder window. Went back to 1password and then deleted the item. Did not do a new backup. Then I did a restore. The restore window that popped up shows 13 items in it. (the finder window that popped up on the backup showed 23 items) There was two from yesterday and several from previous days. In the backup finder window there were several from yesterday but only two showed up. The two backups I did this morning did not show up at all.

So if i select the most recent in the restore window it does not restore the deleted item as it was a backup from before the item was displayed.



It acts like some of the backups are not being displayed in the restore window.

Ok did another test, the restore window still does not show backup from today. Went to Select Other and then selected the most recent and it restored.



So guess I am not sure about what files are supposed to show in the Restore window. 1 - ?Only automatic backups. (When do the auto backups occur). 2 - are all backups auto and manual supposed to show in the window?



I can send screenshots if you desire showing the windows.



Thanks,

Jody

Ben

Thanks for the confirmation Jody. I'll pass this information on to our developers and we'll let you know if we need any more information.

Ben

Hi Jody,



I just wanted to add that I spoke with one of our developers today and they will be investigating this further in the near future. Thank you for taking the time to write out the detailed report!



Thanks

Ben

sagashi

Just to chime in -- experiencing something similar here. If this is helpful for the developers, cool -- if not, ignore. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



For me, 1Password 3.9 shows the most recent automated backup as last night at 11:28:50 PM.



Since then I'd added a maybe 20 more logins by hand.



This afternoon, I did a sample import from an exported test Keepass database as TXT file (it worked! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> ). After all, adding them one by one is fun and all (har), but siphoning them all in would just be faaaar more efficient. Anyhow, as this was a test, I then removed the two test entries. I then deleted the folders the import had made automatically... only to watch the folders pop back into existence a few seconds later. Eh? The deleted logins haven't returned, but those folders just won't stay deleted.



After some forum searching, I decided to try dragging 1Password to the trash and re-download it from the MAS. I restored from the latest backup (last night, 11:28:50 PM), figuring that I'd have lost the extra items I'd put in since then. The shorter, pre-11:28:50 PM list of items came up when I opened 1Password and the undead folders were nowhere to be seen. That's what I was expecting.



Then a few seconds later, not only did those pesky folders get resurrected again, the logins I'd made AFTER the restored backup were suddenly back as well. The creation dates on those magically reappearing entries are all after 11:28:50 PM last night, well after the backup from which I'd just restored. Er...



Now, while it's nifty that I don't have to re-do that work ... it's rather baffling / concerning that 1Password 3.9 is remembering things from somewhere -- and that place survives restoration and re-installation.



So, to sum up that narrative:[list]

[*]deleted logins seem to stay deleted (as one would expect)

[*]deleted folders come back from the dead after a few seconds (annoying)

[*]logins and folders that shouldn't survive a restoration or re-installation, do after a few seconds (concerning)

[/list]

Hope something in the above helps the devs pin down what is going on and getting it patched.



Thanks!

jxpx777

I think there are a couple of issues here, so let me try to address them separately.



Jody, when you delete an item, it's not actually deleted from the filesystem. It's marked as "trash" in 1Password and you can still view the entry in the 1Password trash and restore it from there if you need to. To really delete it, you'll need to empty the trash in 1Password. In that case, why does 1Password show it as an entry count? Because the file still exists in the 1Password.agilekeychain. The backup mechanism only counts the number of files in the data file directly without any logic about what kinds of entries they are. There are a few entry types that get counted in this process, but the most common ones are trashed items and saved sync points such as for Wi-Fi sync.



sagashi, it sounds like you're issue is because the browser extension communicates back to the 1Password helper process and the helper process looks for any entries that 1Password has in the browser that are not present in the main application. If it finds any, it syncs them back to 1Password. This has caused pain for a couple of users, and we're considering the best way to improve this for the future. For now, a way to work around this issue is to delete the browser extension(s) before you restore from a backup and then reinstall afterward. I realize that's not the most intuitive or user-friendly approach but right now it's the most sure-fire way to prevent this repopulation.



I hope that helps. If you still have questions or need further assistance, please let us know.

sagashi

'Evening,



Thanks for parsing things out there. Perhaps my execution was flawed this evening, but things didn't pan out. While the extension is removed, things within the 1Password application work as expected. As soon as I install the extension again and have both the browser (Firefox 6.0.2) and 1Password running however, the undead entries and folders spring right back into existence. Bummer.



Method used:[list=1]

[*]I removed the Firefox extension.

[*]Quit Firefox.

[*]Started 1Password and removed those pesky folders and the unneeded test entries / logins.

[*]They all stayed away.

[*]So I opened Firefox and left it running for a while -- the folders and test logins still stayed away. Excellent. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[*]I quit 1Password, waited a few seconds, and started it back up.

[*]I went into 1Password's Browser Extensions page and saw that it still thought the Firefox extension was installed (even though Firefox showed it was no longer present). Odd.

[*]I right-clicked and hit Reload on that 1Password "Browser Extensions" page, but the 1Password app still thought the extension was installed.

[*]So I clicked on the link to bring up the AgileBits extensions page to download the latest Firefox extensions 3.8.4. That installed.

[*]… and both the folders and unneeded test entries popped right back into existence. Doh!

[/list]

I repeated the above, disabling the extension first before removing it, but had the same problem. Once the extension is re-installed, it seems to still see all the old info. That is, removing the extension doesn't seem to actually remove the pool of 1Password information it had been using.



Do I need to delete things from the file system manually to get that old information to clear out? If so, what path(s) might that be?



Anyhow, if I have both 1Password and Firefox w/ the extension open at the same time, [i]then[/i] I can delete the test entries and have them stay away. So that's a positive.



The folders, however, are simply too sticky. To see if it would help, I tried renaming them to Zombie 1, 2, 3 & 4. The new names are holding. I then nested the other there all below Zombie 1. That nesting seems to stick around -- until I click over to Firefox, and then they flip back to being un-nested. Once more, I deleted them and immediately hit Empty Trash. However, after 10~20 seconds, they were back, still sporting their new names.



Also -- circling back to another of Jody's observations: when one makes a backup manually, and then later goes to restore it, that backup is not listed as a backup you can select. I'm seeing the same thing Jody noted -- automatic ones are available to restore to, but manual ones are MIA. Now, I can hit the "Select Other..." button, but Finder can't seem to readily navigate to the directory where those things are stored (is it: ~/Library/Containers/com.agilebits.onepassword-osx-helper/Data/Library/Application Support/1Password/Backups ?). I can work around that by copying the backup file somewhere Finder [i]can[/i] see ... but ultimately it seems odd for us to be able to make a Backup manually, and then not be able to readily get to it. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



Thanks again for all the work done so far, as well as everything going forward!

Ben

[quote name='sagashi' timestamp='1316500850' post='50539']

Do I need to delete things from the file system manually to get that old information to clear out? If so, what path(s) might that be?

[/quote]



The file in question is the OnePassword.sqlite database in ~/Library/Application Support/Firefox/Profiles



Ultimately though this is a bug that we have acknowledged and hope to have fixed in the next update (it has already been fixed in the 3.8.x beta line). <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



Please keep an eye out for MAS updates.

sagashi

Nifty -- thanks!

khad

On behalf of Ben, you are quite welcome! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-)' />



If we can be further assistance in the meantime, please let us know.



Cheers!