Multiple files and other questions

vr8ce

I realize the MAS version doesn't support double-clicking on multiple files to use them, however stupid that is (don't get me started on Apple MAS issues). My question is, can I keep two files in the container folder and rename them to the proper name and use them that way? If so, I can just create a couple of AppleScripts that will rename them and then run the program.



Is 4.0 going to be MAS-only, or will 3.8 users also have an upgrade path?



Also, the last several web sites I've added aren't getting their screen shots in the upper right-hand corner of the login details screen anymore. I looked in the help and couldn't find where they were mentioned. For instance, I just created one for the Agile forums, and it is bereft of a screenshot.



Thanks!

khad

Hey vr8ce,



[quote]My question is, can I keep two files in the container folder and rename them to the proper name and use them that way?[/quote]

Thanks for asking about this.



Multiple data files have never really been "supported" in 1Password, although it was possible to do this with the previous extensions. The new extension architecture in all browsers is sandboxed which requires a background process ("1Password Helper") to keep the data in sync between the data file and the extensions' own databases (which are sandboxed, remember). In the past, the extensions were reading data directly from the data file, but the increased security that sandboxing brings means this is no longer possible. It is not outside the realm of possibility that this process could be improved in such a way as to allow for switching data files on the fly, but at the moment, the nature of the syncing between sandboxed extension database and data file prevents this.



While 1Password was always designed with a database model (as opposed to a "document model" like a word processor or text editor which inherently supports opening different data files) this doesn't mean we can't also move toward a more document-centric approach in the future. If the focus shifted in that direction, opening different datafiles (even simultaneously) would obviously be a priority. I don't think we are headed in that direction, but we never say "never".



A more likely development direction would be "data sharing" which may end up being a more elegant solution for your use case than swapping data files on the fly anyway. We've been looking into features that would allow you to designate certain items in your data file for sharing with others, but it would also allow you delineate different security levels which I imagine would be more helpful than constantly swapping data files.



I will certainly pass your request along to the developers for consideration. This is not something we are somehow philosophically opposed to, and I'm sure that if it is possible, they can find a way to make it happen.



In the mean time, if you absolutely need to swap data files,[b] the only way to make the extensions aware of the new data is to remove and reinstall the browser extensions after you change data files[/b]. I'm sorry I don't have a better answer at this time.



[quote]Also, the last several web sites I've added aren't getting their screen shots in the upper right-hand corner of the login details screen anymore. I looked in the help and couldn't find where they were mentioned. For instance, I just created one for the Agile forums, and it is bereft of a screenshot.[/quote]

At this time, previews are not downloaded. This is a known issue in 1Password 3.9 which we are working to resolve.



[quote]Is 4.0 going to be MAS-only, or will 3.8 users also have an upgrade path?[/quote]

1Password 4 will be available exclusively in the Mac App Store. Many of our customers have already switched from 1Password 3.8 to 1Password 3.9 (available in the Mac App Store) which comes with a free upgrade to 1Password 4 when it is released. The upgrade path from 3.8 to 4.0 will be essentially identical to the path from 3.9 to 4.0: both will require a purchase from the Mac App Store, but 3.9 users will have already made the purchase prior to 4.0.



All of our apps are still on sale right now, though, for our Thank-To-You Sale, so anyone can purchase 1Password 3.9 from the Mac App Store right now (which comes with that free upgrade to version 4) for less than the normal upgrade price. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />



If we can be of further assistance, please let us know. We are always here to help!

vr8ce

Thanks for the explanation. Here's all I care about. My wife and I have different computers. We have different 1Password installs. I want her, in the case of an emergency, to have access to my 1Password password. I do not want the databases merged, because one, they wouldn't stay merged, and two, I don't want to have to constantly choose which of two identical logins I want (and have to put our respective names in the description for every one in order to be able to tell the difference).



This can't be an unusual scenario, especially since your family licenses were so popular. 3.8 was perfect; I occasionally copied my file to her computer, and all she had to do to open mine was double-click on it.



The gyrations you have jumped through for MAS have resulted in a product that is less usable, less desirable, and less functional. The fact you have seen fit to be MAS-only for the next iteration only means that I'm looking for other solutions for a product I loved. You can blame Apple for the gyrations, but you cannot blame Apple for the decision to be MAS-only.



Thanks again for the explanation.

khad

Mac OS X is a Unix-based operating system. As such, it was designed as a multi-user environment from the ground up. Simply use [url="http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.7/en/mtusr001.html"]separate OS X accounts[/url] and the 1Password data will be segregated. If she only needs access to your 1Password in an emergency, the above limitation I described shouldn't really be an issue. If she needs access to the data in the browser extensions in that emergency situation, she would need to reinstall them after switching data files. Otherwise, for more basic, read-only access you might consider using the [url="http://help.agile.ws/1Password3/1passwordanywhere.html"]1PasswordAnywhere[/url] feature built into every data file.



[quote]This can't be an unusual scenario, especially since your family licenses were so popular. 3.8 was perfect; I occasionally copied my file to her computer, and all she had to do to open mine was double-click on it.[/quote]

This is still possible but the changes in the browser landscape have required a new architecture which also means that the browser extensions need to be reinstalled after switching the data file.



[quote]The gyrations you have jumped through for MAS have resulted in a product that is less usable, less desirable, and less functional. The fact you have seen fit to be MAS-only for the next iteration only means that I'm looking for other solutions for a product I loved. You can blame Apple for the gyrations, but you cannot blame Apple for the decision to be MAS-only.[/quote]

The above change has nothing to do with the Mac App Store. 1Password 3.8 (available from our website) operates in the same manner. As I mentioned in the preceding paragraph, the change in 1Password is required based on changes in the web browsers. There is no "blame" to place really. The browsers have become more secure. In doing so, they have changed the way 1Password can interact with them. The approach is more secure, but the (already previously unsupported) ability to switch data files on the fly becomes more strictly unsupported because of this increased security.



As I mentioned in my initial reply, [b]data sharing[/b] is already on our radar. This is something we are keen to resolve in a more elegant fashion than the "hack" of manually switching data files ever provided. I just don't have a time frame for this at the moment.



I'm sorry if that was not the answer you were hoping for, but please let me know if you have any additional questions or concerns.



Best regards to you this and every season,

vr8ce

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1322372234' post='54475']

Mac OS X is a Unix-based operating system. As such, it was designed as a multi-user environment from the ground up. [/quote]

Yes, thanks, I'm well aware of that. But I didn't say we had multiple accounts on the same computer — I said we had multiple computers. I don't have a login on hers, she doesn't have a login on mine. If I understand what you're saying, though, it still wouldn't work, since, although I could periodically copy over the file from my computer to the location for my login on hers, the browser databases in my login would still be out-of-sync with the data file that is now in my login. So, we would still need to re-install the extensions every time I copied them in order to use them. Or, not install them at all, which is an option, but means there's something else she now has to remember to do: 1) login to my account, and 2) install the browser extensions. These are things I don't want her to have to remember should the aforementioned emergency happen. Plus, if that's what has to occur, it can occur just as easily in her account as it can in mine.



[quote name='khad' timestamp='1322372234' post='54475']The above change has nothing to do with the Mac App Store.[/quote]

The separate browser database, perhaps, but everything else does: we can no longer double-click on a filename to open it (which still works fine in 3.8, irrespective of the browser issue; even your own web site lists it as a limitation of 3.9, not 3.8; further, your web site also says that the extension database is a result of application sandboxing, which is a Lion issue, not a browser issue), we can no longer store the master password in the keychain, and so forth.



Lest I sound ungrateful, I do appreciate your time. I'm grateful for your answers, I just don't like them. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> As I said, the product is now less usable, less desirable, and less functional. That's a shame.

khad

You had mentioned that your desire for a data sharing functionality was "in the case of an emergency", but it sounds like you are actually looking for a more robust solution for day-to-day use. This is a highly requested feature, and I'll reiterate once more that while this has not yet been a feature in 1Password, [b]it is certainly something we are keen on[/b]. I can't provide a time frame right now, though.



If the need to open a different data file is truly [b]only for emergencies[/b], the additional step of extension reinstallation shouldn't really provide too much hassle if only done once. We are available via email at support AT agilebits DOT com to provide any and all assistance necessary for extension reinstallation or any number of other things. Of course, it's possible that when that emergency time arises, a data sharing feature may already exist in 1Password. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



[quote]we can no longer double-click on a filename to open it[/quote]

Sure you can. Have you tried it? <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

[img]https://img.skitch.com/20111128-ggg2muxm5pqspm77wrbtybhna9.png[/img]

[quote]your web site also says that the extension database is a result of application sandboxing, which is a Lion issue, not a browser issue[/quote]

This is incorrect. Application sandboxing is available OS-wide in Lion, but the browsers sandbox the extension environment regardless of which OS they are running in. The sandboxing of the browser extensions (which is what required this change) is a [i]browser-level issue[/i] as I mentioned above. The sandboxing of the 1Password application itself is an OS-level affair which is why 1Password 3.9 is only available for Lion. 1Password 3.8 is still available for Snow Leopard users. It is not sandboxed itself, but communicates with the sandboxed browser extensions which are sandboxed due to the browser architecture not the OS.



[quote]we can no longer store the master password in the keychain, and so forth.[/quote]

This is unrelated to both browser extension and application sandboxing. It was a security decision. Storing 1Password's master password into the default login keychain can compromise your security. If the login keychain is not properly secured, which by default it is not, all your 1Password data can be viewed without entering the master password. We are removing the feature going forward and have started with 1Password 3.9.



I understand that you may not like the changes, but as Steve Gibson said in a recent episode of "Security Now": "We want power at no cost". Every security related decision has ramifications elsewhere and we have attempted to provide the best balance to the largest number of our users.



Perhaps with a data sharing feature in a future update all of the decisions we have made that you don't particularly care for will be forgiven. I can hope, can't I? <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

benfdc

[quote name='vr8ce' timestamp='1322335828' post='54465']

Here's all I care about. My wife and I have different computers. We have different 1Password installs. I want her, in the case of an emergency, to have access to my 1Password password.

[/quote]



My wife and I both use Dropbox to back up and sync our respective keychains. We don't share our keychains, but there is a sealed envelope in our safe deposit box that contains copies of my Dropbox login and my 1P keychain master password. There's another sealed envelope in the box which, I trust, has hers.



If each of you already knows the other's 1P master password, and the only issue is access to a spouse's keychain in case of emergency, then you have a few easy options so long as you are willing to (1) entrust Dropbox with your keychains and (2) entrust access to your Dropboxen to each other. For occasional lookups, just log into your spouse's Dropbox account and use 1PasswordAnywhere to access her keychain.



For greater convenience and browser integration, create a new user account on your Mac (it needn't "belong" to your wife) and set it up to sync with your wife's Dropbox account whenever you log in. She can do the same to give herself access to a copy of your 1P keychain on her machine.