Feature Request: Remove need for administrative rights to install

RRRob

I started up 1Password for Windows this morning at work, and discovered to my dismay that the latest beta build, 1.0.9BETA-240, [b]requires[/b] administrative rights to install.



I don't have them on my work machine. I [b]can't get[/b] [b]them [/b]on my work machine. Until now, the installer's need for them to install the 1Password service (five "service manager unavailable" errors during installation) has been a minor annoyance since I don't need the background service. But if you're going to require them for the entire installation, I will [b]never [/b]be able to upgrade to any future build.



Requiring admin rights for installation is a serious problem for those of us in corporate environments. We don't own our machines. They're centrally managed by an IT department, and they are very reluctant to grant a user admin rights to his or her account unless it's absolutely necessary. By taking this step, AgileBits is cutting itself off from a large market unless it plans on courting corporate IT departments in addition to individual users.



I'm already working around 1Password synchronization problems due to my employer blocking the Dropbox.com domain. But I can't work around a lack of admin rights! If AgileBits either can't or won't remove the need for admin rights for even a partial installation (just the browser plugins and the program itself), or deliver a fully portable installation that can be simply unzipped into a directory, I will have no choice but to switch to another cross platform password manager.



This is the last straw for me. I've stuck with 1Password until now because of its features and comparative ease-of-use on OS X, iOS, and Windows. But 1Password 3.9 on OS X is already unusable for me (which I've [url="http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/8121-1password-mas-doesnt-pickup-dropbox-database/page__view__findpost__p__46989"]posted elsewhere[/url]). If 1Password for Windows suffers a similar fate — well, there's always LastPass, RoboForm, or even KeePass…

Stefan von Dutch

1Password for Windows always required admin privileges, but starting with build 240 we're going to actually enforce this, as almost every installer out there does.

RRRob

As I requested: eliminate the need for admin rights entirely (say, by installing to the current user's profile application directory, e.g., D:\Profiles\username\Local Settings\Application Data\1Password, instead of making it available to all users in C:\Program Files\1Password), permit a limited install of those features that don't absolutely require admin rights to operate when said rights aren't available (the status quo), or offer a portable version (no background service, using relative directories, etc.). Why does 1Password need admin rights when two of the browsers it supports (Google Chrome, Mozilla Firefox) [b]don't [/b]need them to install or run? Microsoft has been telling programmers to avoid requiring admin rights for non-service program installers [url="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163486.aspx#S4"]for years now[/url].

Stefan von Dutch

[quote name='RRRob' timestamp='1322510426' post='54547']

As I requested: eliminate the need for admin rights entirely

[/quote]



There are too many things that we need to do that require admin privileges, such as...

1) install extension into Internet Explorer

2) 1Password service for universal unlock

3) install ActiveX components we rely upon

4) our new extension architecture for Safari and Chrome (due soon)



[quote name='RRRob' timestamp='1322510426' post='54547']

(say, by installing to the current user's profile application directory, e.g., D:\Profiles\username\Local Settings\Application Data\1Password, instead of making it available to all users in C:\Program Files\1Password)

[/quote]



Installing your executables in ..\Local Settings\Application Data\ is bad practice. I know Google Chrome is doing it, but "Application Data" is not the same as application executables.



[quote name='RRRob' timestamp='1322510426' post='54547']

permit a limited install of those features that don't absolutely require admin rights to operate when said rights aren't available (the status quo), or offer a portable version (no background service, using relative directories, etc.)

[/quote]



Our installer either requires admin privileges, or it does not (this isn't something you can differentiate after the installer has been launched). However, I'm open to the idea of a non-admin installer that does not install any of the features listed above (essentially, a "portable" version).



[quote name='RRRob' timestamp='1322510426' post='54547']

Microsoft has been telling programmers to avoid requiring admin rights for non-service program installers [url="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163486.aspx#S4"]for years now[/url].

[/quote]



Then why do most of the Microsoft installers require admin privileges? <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wink:' />



Before we get ahead of ourselves, let's remember the 1Password application does not required admin privileges. Only our installer does (as do most installers out there). This has always been case, but now that we're releasing a new extension architecture (first for Safari, later also for Chrome), we're actually enforcing this now. I'd rather not, but there are too many dependencies that require admin privileges.

RRRob

[quote name='Stefan von Dutch' timestamp='1322513302' post='54550']

There are too many things that we need to do that require admin privileges, such as...

1) install extension into Internet Explorer[/quote]Given IE's hooks into the Windows file system, I'll accept that.



[quote name='Stefan von Dutch' timestamp='1322513302' post='54550']

2) 1Password service for universal unlock[/quote]I can't miss something that has never run on my system. Since that's a service, the 1Password installer has never been able to install it because of my lack of admin rights.



[quote name='Stefan von Dutch' timestamp='1322513302' post='54550']

3) install ActiveX components we rely upon[/quote]Then why can individuals install ActiveX extensions from web sites without admin rights on a case-by-case basis, provided that ability hasn't been blocked by group privilege settings set by the administrators?



[quote name='Stefan von Dutch' timestamp='1322513302' post='54550']

4) our new extension architecture for Safari and Chrome (due soon)[/quote]If the new Chrome extension needs admin rights to operate, much less install, 1Password goes in the Recycling Bin immediately. I have enough problems with extensions due to a long-standing bug in Chrome that has yet to be fixed, and don't need admin right issues on top of that.



[quote name='Stefan von Dutch' timestamp='1322513302' post='54550']

However, I'm open to the idea of a non-admin installer that does not install any of the features as listed above (essentially, a "portable" version).[/quote]That's all I'm really asking for. Long gone are the days when one could blindly assume that every potential customer of one's products had full control over the machine or network they wished to use a product on.



[quote name='Stefan von Dutch' timestamp='1322513302' post='54550']

Then why do most of the Microsoft installers require admin privileges?[/quote]Maybe because those that do munge the file system, drivers, services, or the registry, the things one wants to be most protected? We are talking about the OS's publisher, after all, and they tend to tinker, even if it's not always obvious. Except for the unlocking service, ActiveX components, and the IE extension, the 1Password installer isn't fiddling with any of those, is it?

Stefan von Dutch

[quote name='RRRob' timestamp='1322500207' post='54536']

five "service manager unavailable" errors during installation

[/quote]



You are an experienced user and those errors might not bother you much, but we have many other users out there. Some of them believe the end of the world is near when 1Password prompts errors on them, and they will send us messages. Lots of messages. Another reason for us to enforce admin privileges during installation.

Stefan von Dutch

[quote name='RRRob' timestamp='1322515845' post='54555']

why can individuals install ActiveX extensions from web sites without admin rights on a case-by-case basis, provided that ability hasn't been blocked by group privilege settings set by the administrators?

[/quote]



This is an IE-only feature, available to IE8+ on Vista and Win7 only. As far as I know, non-admin ActiveX controls (or: per-user ActiveX installation) is not available elsewhere.



In most cases registering a ActiveX component involves writing to HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT, a privilege not granted to non-admin users.



We rely on a few 3rd party ActiveX components, and that is why our installer requires admin privileges.

Stefan von Dutch

[quote name='RRRob' timestamp='1322515845' post='54555']

If the new Chrome extension needs admin rights to operate

[/quote]



None of our browser extensions need admin rights *to operate*. We only require admin privileges *to install* certain things. This includes our browser extension for Internet Explorer, and the 1Password agent/helper (the latter powers our new and upcoming extension architecture for Safari and Chrome).

Stefan von Dutch

[quote name='RRRob' timestamp='1322515845' post='54555']

Long gone are the days when one could blindly assume that every potential customer of one's products had full control over the machine or network they wished to use a product on.

[/quote]



I'm not assuming anything. But sometimes, there are dependencies that require admin privileges. We have a few of those dependencies *at install time* (our product itself does not require admin privileges).



I regret this as much as you do, but there really isn't anything new here. Our product has always required admin privileges at install time. But now that we're introducing a new extension architecture for Safari and Chrome, we'll need to actually enforce this more strictly.



Sometime in the future, I would love to release a stripped-down (or "portable") version that does not require admin privileges at install time. But for now, I'm afraid the admin privileges are here to stay. There are too many dependencies that require this.

Stefan von Dutch

[quote name='RRRob' timestamp='1322515845' post='54555']

Except for the unlocking service, ActiveX components, and the IE extension, the 1Password installer isn't fiddling with any of those, is it?

[/quote]



Unlocking service + ActiveX components + IE extension + HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE



When you add everything up, it makes sense our installer requires admin privileges.



But I'll promise you I'll do whatever I can to come up with a non-admin installer sometime in the future. I hate the admin privileges as much as you do, because in the end, it is in my interest to get 1Password running on as many computers out there as possible (including yours).

RRRob

[quote name='Stefan von Dutch' timestamp='1322565584' post='54593']

None of our browser extensions need admin rights *to operate*. We only require admin privileges *to install* certain things. This includes our browser extension for Internet Explorer, and the 1Password agent/helper (the latter powers our new and upcoming extension architecture for Safari and Chrome).

[/quote]



Unless I'm missing something, you're saying that since admin rights are required to install the 1Password agent needed by the upcoming Safari and Chrome extensions along with the IE extension itself, the only browser in an environment like mine that would have a working 1Password extension would be Firefox — and only if that extension and the 1Password program are made available in a separate installer. In short, 1Password for Windows v1.0.9BETA-239 is the last build anyone without admin rights can install to have [i]any [/i]functionality until some nebulous day when a portable installer materializes.



I can empathize with simplifying the install process for inexperienced users; I spent ten years in software retail at a time when one needed a degree in memory management to get Falcon 4.0 to run under MS-DOS 3.3. But I would [i]seriously [/i]recommend AgileBits stop and question the architectural changes it's making to the OS X, Windows, and iOS versions in the name of "improving" the products when it means [b]deliberately [/b]foregoing sales to users in a corporate computing environment. Unless AgileBits means to sell directly to IT departments and deal with mass deployment issues in locked down network environments, that is.



For me, it's now clear that 1Password is a dead end. I will downgrade my Windows machine at work to the last released version, write off my "upgrade" to the v3.9 MAS version as a loss and stay with v3.8.x, refrain from purchasing any new, separate iOS or Android 1Password apps — and start looking at competing products and preparing to export my password database. When 1Password eventually breaks (most likely one of the browser extensions, based on past history) on one of my systems due to a browser, OS, or Dropbox update, I'll be ready to switch if 1Password's architectural shortcomings (pardon me, "improvements") aren't remedied by then.



A disappointed former customer,

—Robert Reed

DBrown

Thanks for your post, Robert. We appreciate your honest appraisal and frank comments.



We hope you and other readers of this topic will understand that the architectural changes Stefan describes are not so much [i]decisions[/i] as [i]requirements[/i], if we're to continue offering true browser integration. Except for Internet Explorer, all the supported browsers are headed in the direction that has made these changes necessary. (IE, of course, presents its own set of difficulties, but that's a different subject.)



We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience.

RRRob

[quote name='DBrown' timestamp='1322592792' post='54627']

We hope you and other readers of this topic will understand that the architectural changes Stefan describes are not so much [i]decisions[/i] as [i]requirements[/i], if we're to continue offering true browser integration. Except for Internet Explorer, all the supported browsers are headed in the direction that has made these changes necessary. (IE, of course, presents its own set of difficulties, but that's a different subject.)

[/quote]



Just so long as AgileBits understands that by necessitating the entire installer require admin rights to install just those portions of 1Password for Windows that absolutely require them renders the entire program unusable by a not-insignificant portion of the total Windows user base. I could make do with cutting and pasting between the 1Password application and a browser, forfeiting all the browser extensions and the related global unlock service. But you're disallowing even that with this change.



Looking back over this discussion, the sticking point appears to be what is required for "true browser integration". Has AgileBits considered adding an "advanced" or "custom" option to the installer that would allow power users more granular control over the installation process and bypass those portions that truly require administrative rights, allowing just the 1Password application to be installed? It wouldn't be a truly portable installation (but would be a start in the right direction) and the user would [i]knowingly [/i]lose the browser extensions, but from what you and Stefan are saying users like myself won't be able to use them going forward anyway (unless they're re-architected again), and we'd at least retain the ability to access and update our password databases. Synchronizing the databases — we'll leave to another topic.

khad

For 1Password without browser integration, have you considered [url="http://help.agile.ws/1Password3/1passwordanywhere.html"]1PasswordAnywhere[/url] which requires no installation and is portable (i.e. self-contained)?



Granted, it is read-only, so it is not the same as 1Password itself. I just thought I should mention it in case anyone in a similar situation who is coming across this topic later could benefit from it. It sounds like that is not what you are looking for.

RRRob

[quote name='khad' timestamp='1323790886' post='55426']

For 1Password without browser integration, have you considered [url="http://help.agile.ws/1Password3/1passwordanywhere.html"]1PasswordAnywhere[/url] which requires no installation and is portable (i.e. self-contained)?



Granted, it is read-only, so it is not the same as 1Password itself. I just thought I should mention it in case anyone in a similar situation who is coming across this topic later could benefit from it. It sounds like that is not what you are looking for.

[/quote]



I've used the 1PasswordAnywhere feature upon occasion, but typically only for password recovery while using a Chromebook. Its [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]read-only nature[/font][/size][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif], with its inability to create new passwords or login entries[/font][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif] otherwise makes it of little use to me. And if the DropBox.com domain is blocked, sync workarounds are [i]still[/i] required to access 1PasswordAnywhere from online. An admin makes a single, simple proxy or DNS server blacklist entry, "[font=courier new,courier,monospace]*.dropbox.com[/font]", [color=#000000]et voilà[/color] — 1Passwor[/font]d's entire synchronization scheme collapses in a heap.

DBrown

[quote name='RRRob' timestamp='1324317652' post='55827']

...[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]An admin makes a single, simple proxy or DNS server blacklist entry, "[font=courier new,courier,monospace]*.dropbox.com[/font]", [color=#000000]et voilà[/color] — 1Passwor[/font]d's entire synchronization scheme collapses in a heap.

[/quote]



It does, RRRob. We apologize for the inconvenience.