MAS 3.9.x Imminent?

The Doctor

Hi Guys...



I had suggested to Ben that you guys create a locked, persistent, and "pinned" thread to provide updates on MAS versions.



He seemed to think it was a good idea and promised to check into it...but I haven't seen anything as yet.



Obviously, you guys have been busy...I get that, but here's the thing. For those customers, myself included, who have been around a long time, we know that, left to your own devices, you'd probably have 8 beta builds, two stable builds, and a partridge in a pair tree out by now.



So...have you submitted a new build to MAS? If so, can you please provide when you did so, when you think it would become available and the release notes?



Since I'm asking for things...I might as well throw in your recommended reversion approach. That is, what if 3.9.x does something particularly nasty...of course it won't...but just suppose it did. Should we rely on Time Machine to revert back to 3.9.0? is there another preferred approach. Clearly we couldn't go to MAS and get previous versions so best to think ahead.



Much thanks!!

Ben

Hey The Doctor,



First of all, thank you for the laugh. I needed that. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />



I haven't received any word of an update being submitted to Apple yet, but I do know our developers are still hard at work doing bug squashing.



Time Machine is a great option. I also personally recommend SuperDuper! for a whole-disk backup.

ThomasP

Agree with the idea of a pinned thread (or new pages on your web site) with known issues and status. Should be easy enough to do, please someone at Agilebits reply if this is in the realm of possibly or not. Digging through the forums is not efficient and can be frustrating.



Probably a good idea to track 3.9.x, 3.8.x, browser extensions, submissions of revs to MAS, etc. Cover bugs, known solutions to user issues, etc. I would like to be able to easily track 3.9 as I've purchased it but won't install it until the many issues I've read about in the forums are addressed. I'm betting my $19.99 on Agilebits past performance, not what I've experienced recently. Particularly the MAS/3.9 launch resulted in some unfortunately predictable negative responses. So, regardless of the reasons for what's happened it's time to take accountability and communicate more clearly with your installed base. In some PMs with Dave, I mentioned one management expert's thoughts on communication that I think have relevance. Paraphrasing a short excerpt:



"The single biggest reason changes [such as 3.9@MAS] fail is that no one thought about endings [what will change for users] or planned to manage their impact on people [e.g. customers]. Naturally concerned about the future, planners and implementers all too often forget that people have to let go of the present first [i.e. be ready/willing to make the change]. They forget that while the first task of change management is to understand the desired outcome and how to get there, the first task of transition management is to convince people to leave home. Convincing people to "leave home" involves [u]selling the problem that is the reason for the change[/u]. Most managers and leaders put 10% of their energy into selling the problem and 90% into selling the solution to the problem. [u]People aren't in the market for solutions to problems they don't see, acknowledge and understand.[/u]”



I for one don't fully understand the problem you're trying to solve with the change to 3.9@MAS, so pls help me get behind this with more useful/targeted communications. A pinned thread on issues/updates is but one small step in that a direction.



Cheers

Ben

Thank you for the feedback. I agree a thread with known issues and their status would be useful. I will see what we can do about getting that going.



Edit: Known issues: [url="https://onepassword-osx.tenderapp.com/kb"]https://onepassword-osx.tenderapp.com/kb[/url]

The Doctor

Haven't seen this before...what is that whole page about?



Didn't see any Known Issues section or anything about MAS submissions...in short...I'm confused...

Ben

[quote name='The Doctor' timestamp='1316214516' post='49734']

Haven't seen this before...what is that whole page about?



Didn't see any Known Issues section or anything about MAS submissions...in short...I'm confused...

[/quote]



It's brand new. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> It is a new (not exclusive) avenue that we will be providing customer/technical support for the MAS through. It does a nice job of highlighting the top issues.

Bill Weye

Hey, Sunshine!



[I'm referring to all the agile bits as "sunshine" from now on, because despite a streak of utter failure lately, everyone has an illogical sunshine attitude.]



This from the KB article about now auto-save in the FF extension:



[quote]To work around this, please try saving the login manually like this:[/quote]



That isn't a "work around" -- it's something entirely different that doesn't enable auto save. Workaround implies that there's another way to get auto save working. There is not, therefore it's not a workaround.



Suggested edit:



"If you're a stooge that bought 1Password under the impression that it works, we're sorry, it doesn't. Until it does, save your passwords on sticky notes, as that's going to be more user friendly."

Ben

Bill,



I'm very sorry to hear that you are disappointed in this current lack of functionality. You are absolutely correct: this is not an "auto"-save. It does however save the form, as auto-save would, accomplishing the same outcome (which is why we call it a "workaround"). We do hope to bring true auto-save to Firefox 6 very soon.



Thank you

Ben

SaSaSushi

[quote name='Bill Weye' timestamp='1316219727' post='49754']

That isn't a "work around" -- it's something entirely different that doesn't enable auto save. Workaround implies that there's another way to get auto save working. There is not, therefore it's not a workaround.[/quote]



It's a [i]workaround [/i]in that it provides a way to save logins until the autosubmit feature is restored.



[quote]"If you're a stooge that bought 1Password under the impression that it works, we're sorry, it doesn't. Until it does, save your passwords on sticky notes, as that's going to be more user friendly."

[/quote]



How does pushing a [i]button[/i] equate to writing passwords on 'sticky notes' exactly?

The Doctor

Ben...



So this new page....it doesn't seem to use the same credentials as does this forum. Is that in the works, or should I just create another user profile and password?



All these passwords to keep track of...golly if only there were a way to manage them all <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/emoticon-0136-giggle.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='(giggle)' />

Ben

[quote name='The Doctor' timestamp='1316229242' post='49800']

Ben...



So this new page....it doesn't seem to use the same credentials as does this forum. Is that in the works, or should I just create another user profile and password?



All these passwords to keep track of...golly if only there were a way to manage them all <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/emoticon-0136-giggle.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='(giggle)' />

[/quote]



Funny guy! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



I don't know of any plans to integrate the login systems at this point. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

ThomasP

Thanks, it's a step in the right direction.

Ben

[quote name='ThomasP' timestamp='1316284383' post='49990']

Thanks, it's a step in the right direction.

[/quote]



You're very welcome and I'm glad to hear that you think so. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Omen

I'd like to chime in here and say that the new [b]1Password for Mac Support[/b] page is a great start at professional communications between the company and it's clients. Much better than official forum posts, stickies and the like. A (small) company that takes the time and considerable effort to construct this avenue of support shows me that it's confident in its product and in answering common questions, along with providing "workarounds" for existing - and sometimes very visible - problems.



Michael



p.s. - I realize that I might be considered by some a "fanbois" due to my praise of 1P. The fact is that AgileBits has greatly impressed me over the years with it's dedication and commitment to 1Password and has earned some "slack" in the current situation. Much more than I would give other software companies I've dealt with over the past 25 years. And if you had read some of my old "typed" postal letters to CEO's, then you would realize how much that "slack" is worth to me.

khad

Thanks, Omen! We are all working overtime for a while lately and really appreciate the kind words. I have shared them with the rest of the team as positive reinforcement. We're not where we want to be yet in some areas, but we won't rest until we are.

The Doctor

Checking in....a number of these bugs that go back to 1P forgetting folders, tags, sync status, etc...are pretty bothersome.



There seems to be several beta releases of the 3.8.x branch that has squashed some or all of them.



This was my primary concern with the MAS...slow updates...especially when contrasted with Agile's, well agile, delivery of updates in the past.



Has a new version been released to the MAS and, if so, release notes please...



thanks!!

Mangoes

Yes the MAS version is lagging behind the 3.8 i have been forced to go back to 3.8. Not happy as i have payed for essentially an inferior app twice.

Ben

[quote name='The Doctor' timestamp='1317059992' post='51394']

Has a new version been released to the MAS and, if so, release notes please...

[/quote]



I do not have any news to share at the moment.

Mangoes

MAS seriously is a bad idea. Your pushing the MAS but sell an inferior product on their and with Apples approval process updates a slow and long. Oh well you have my $$ now so why care....

mixture

[quote name='Mangoes' timestamp='1317181802' post='51542']

MAS seriously is a bad idea. Your pushing the MAS but sell an inferior product on their and with Apples approval process updates a slow and long. Oh well you have my $$ now so why care....

[/quote]



This below nicely sums up MAS. When updates were pushed through Sparkle, we got like 7 beta updates within the same amount of time 1P has been on MAS now.



"Sucks" is putting it mildly.



[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1317131856' post='51430']



I do not have any news to share at the moment.

[/quote]

Mangoes

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1317131856' post='51430']



I do not have any news to share at the moment.

[/quote]



When will you have some news?

brenty

I am not sure how to answer your question without sounding snarky, Mangoes... <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />



There just isn't any way to say for certain. When Apple approves our submission, the Mac App Store will offer you the update. I am sorry I do not have a better answer for you at this time.

Mangoes

The non MAS version is being updated while us MAS people are having to wait. IF the MAS version worked there would be no complaints but it has issues. HURRY UP AND FIX THEM.

Ben

Hi Mangoes,



We get it. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> You've made your position very clear in a number of threads. We understand and respect where you are coming from.



Thanks.

Ben

The Doctor

[quote name='brenty' timestamp='1317276409' post='51718']

I am not sure how to answer your question without sounding snarky, Mangoes... <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />



There just isn't any way to say for certain. When Apple approves our submission, the Mac App Store will offer you the update. I am sorry I do not have a better answer for you at this time.

[/quote]



Brent,



Should I take from your comment that an update has been sent to Apple for review because, that's what it sounded like whether you intended so or not. I say that because it's a sure bet that the MAS won't offer 1P update if you haven't submitted one, so if we are on the look out for an update...that would imply that you've submitted one...fair?



If so, here's my recommendation. My turn to state that I'm not trying to be snarky...but I have made this suggestion before.



If you had a pinned and locked thread titled something like, "MAS Release Status and Notes" you could include something like:



1P 3.9.1 Submitted to MAS on 9/29

3.9.1 Release Notes:

Fixed -- Stuff that was broke

Added -- Stuff y'all wanted



I think this would save you and us a lot of grief.



Just my 2 cents.

Nik

Thanks for the feedback, and sorry for the confusion. To answer your question, we are still working on the update; it has not yet been submitted.

shinratdr

[quote name='Nik' timestamp='1317328734' post='51807']

Thanks for the feedback, and sorry for the confusion. To answer your question, we are still working on the update; it has not yet been submitted.

[/quote]



[quote name='brenty' timestamp='1317276409' post='51718']

[u][b]When Apple approves our submission[/b][/u], the Mac App Store will offer you the update. I am sorry I do not have a better answer for you at this time.

[/quote]

Yes. How on earth could that be confusing?



Anyways, this is really bad news. It's been a month now and there hasn't even been an update submitted? That's insane. The MAS version is riddled with problems and regressions. I once again stupidly gave you guys the benefit of the doubt by assuming it was an issue on Apple's end, and once again got screwed.

The Doctor

Call me hopeful...buy my guess is that this is more about transition pains than anything else. From what I gather, once 1P.app is stabilized AND there is only one code branch to manage, most of the incremental changes will take place in the extensions which can be pushed as fast as the old 1P web store app could be pushed.



The problem, as I see it, is that Agile has been focused on refining the extension rather than getting the 3.9.1 MAS update out the door. I can see WHY they are doing this since it affects multiple browsers and both code branches at once. However, that's small solace to those on the MAS branch who cannot take advantage of the bug fixes already live on the web store branch and new features of the 3.8.6 extension that don't work because of connection issues between it and the 3.9.0 version of the app.



My two cents...for what it's worth, would be to push the 3.8.6 extension out the door (after fixing the apparently systemic issues of autosave not appearing) and then publicly commit to focusing energy on the 3.9.1 MAS version.



So say we all?



<sorry...was watching Battlestar on Netflix again....>

Mangoes

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1317307243' post='51749']

Hi Mangoes,



We get it. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> You've made your position very clear in a number of threads. We understand and respect where you are coming from.



Thanks.

Ben

[/quote]

No you don't get it., the same issues are still present. What is being done to address these issues? For one what is being done to address the extremely slow update releases with MAS version ?



We are told it's going Lion only and dropping the non MAS version buy now or miss out on the cheaper price, so many people do. Now we are left with an inferior version. You updated the non MAS and leave the MAS people out in the cold.



It is very clear going MAS only is a shit idea. What the hell is being done to rectify this issue?

The Doctor

[quote name='Mangoes' timestamp='1317868728' post='52270']

It is very clear going MAS only is a shit idea. What the hell is being done to rectify this issue?

[/quote]



Really...is that necessary?



p.s.



To agile folks...is the above level of angst a prerequisite to getting the title of "Advanced Member?" Just curious <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';-)' />

Nik

[quote name='Mangoes' timestamp='1317868728' post='52270']

What the hell is being done to rectify this issue?

[/quote]



What's being done is that we're working on the 3.9.1 update that will incorporate the changes introduced to the 3.8.x branch since 3.9's Mac App Store release.