Date preference for backups

ashleyk

Just as feedback, I'd like to see an option where backups can have the date applied in European fashion so it goes year-month-date which is easier to scan when organising a list of files. On a side note Knox hasn't done any automated backups for me since the last upgrade was installed so I just did one manually and it's listing the date as the 23rd of December 2011. Is that right?

MikeT

Hi Ashley,



I'm sorry for the delayed response. We recommend emailing us at Knox@agilebits.com for the fastest support response.



It should be matching your OS X's regional settings, is your OS X set to use your preferred European's calendar settings?



As for the backups, the time is based on the last time the vault was modified. If you haven't added any files or modify them since Dec 23rd, the backup will say that in the filename. If you right-click on the backup and select "Get Info", you'll see the Created date set to the time you backed it up but the modified date matching the last time your current vault was modified.



As for the automated backups, it should work. Can you tell me where you are backing up the vaults to, is it to a backups folder on your local drive or to a network share?



Please let me know.



Thanks!

ashleyk

Hi Mike,

Yes I have everything set up correctly for UK time, date, language and format. At time of writing my computer says it's Wed 18th of January 2011 at 22.21.



Looking at the most recent backups they are using the correct UK date format. Currently it looks like this "accounting 2011-12-23 18.57". Given the choice I think I would like it to appear like this: "2011_12_23_accounting". I guess we all have individual preferences on how we find it easiest to search for information.



It's quite possible that I haven't made any changes to the vaults themselves recently. Going through them now they were all created around the 6th of November and the last modification date was on the 15th of January when I did a backup, however the date of the files is still listed as 23rd of December... The Knox preference is set to Backup once a week but when I looked before posting the first message they were all dating back to November, so it looks like the automated backups weren't being done previously from what I can gather. There is something in all of this that doesn't make sense.



I'm still slightly locked into the concept of copying original folders to a vault as a backup but maintaining the originals for normal day to day use. I run Windows 7 via Parallels quite happily as a disc image, so it shouldn't bother me but I've been hesitant to take that step and work directly from the files stored on a disc image for things like accounting. These vaults are generally backed up to DropBox as well and stored in user>documents>Knox, while the backups are stored in user>documents>Knox Backups. I then use [url="http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/10433/symboliclinker"]symbolic linker[/url] to create a link between the files in Knox and the DropBox folder. The key aspect I like about Knox is that I can be sure anything going up to DropBox is encrypted before it leaves me just like the 1Password keychain.



On a side note is there any reason to prefer either 256-bit or 128-bit encryption for vaults?



Thanks



Ashley

ashleyk

I've just tried a manual backup as a test and after waiting several minutes nothing had happened when I selected the whole group of vaults. What I have found is that it will only perform a backup if the disc image has recently been mounted. On the last one I've just tried moments after mounting the image the date is showing in this case correctly as "sites 2012-01-18 22.42". The Knox preferences are set to only include the latest two backups but now there are three.

MikeT

[quote name='ashleyk' timestamp='1326925899' post='57372']

Looking at the most recent backups they are using the correct UK date format. Currently it looks like this "accounting 2011-12-23 18.57". Given the choice I think I would like it to appear like this: "2011_12_23_accounting". I guess we all have individual preferences on how we find it easiest to search for information.

[/quote]



I'm glad that it is now showing the right UK dates. As for the file names, that's a bit complicated to set up as everybody would have their own preferences to do this. We do not have any plans to change this for the moment but we'll consider your suggestion in the future as we continue to improve Knox.



[quote name='ashleyk' timestamp='1326925899' post='57372']

It's quite possible that I haven't made any changes to the vaults themselves recently. Going through them now they were all created around the 6th of November and the last modification date was on the 15th of January when I did a backup, however the date of the files is still listed as 23rd of December... The Knox preference is set to Backup once a week but when I looked before posting the first message they were all dating back to November, so it looks like the automated backups weren't being done previously from what I can gather. There is something in all of this that doesn't make sense.

[/quote]



Did you right click on the backups to select "Get Info" to get the latest modification date? It should say Jan 15th if the active vault's modification is set to Jan 15th, the backups should as least say the same.



We'll look into making this less confusing and set the filename to the date of the backups instead of the modification date.



[quote name='ashleyk' timestamp='1326925899' post='57372']

On a side note is there any reason to prefer either 256-bit or 128-bit encryption for vaults?

[/quote]



128-bit AES would be slightly faster to encrypt/decrypt your documents with but eventually, we'll move to using 256-bit AES by default (and remove 128-bit option) as computers are getting better and more powerful to guess more combinations per seconds for the vault passwords, the 256-bit AES would prolong this by several hundred of thousands of years.



[quote name='ashleyk' timestamp='1326926822' post='57373']

I've just tried a manual backup as a test and after waiting several minutes nothing had happened when I selected the whole group of vaults. What I have found is that it will only perform a backup if the disc image has recently been mounted. On the last one I've just tried moments after mounting the image the date is showing in this case correctly as "sites 2012-01-18 22.42". The Knox preferences are set to only include the latest two backups but now there are three.

[/quote]



There is a bug in the manual backup procedure, it doesn't respect the backups setting. I can confirm what you see and I've informed our team about this.



I apologize about the time you spent investigating this, we'll get this fixed as soon as possible.

ashleyk

I had a little message pop up earlier saying it was about to do an automatic scheduled backup in a couple of minutes, so I left it but looking now it doesn't appear to have worked. The date is still old but also in get info it says the last backup took place on the 15th of January. From what I can see it's really not working.

MikeT

Hi Ashley,



Can you contact us at [email="knox@agilebits.com?subject=Knox"]Knox@agilebits.com[/email], so that we'll be able to help you faster. When you send us the email, please also attach two log files for us.



To gather the files: open Finder and select the Go Menu > Go to Folder option. Type or copy the following address in there without the quotes:

"~/Library/Logs/Knox/"



Locate the file called "Knox.log" and attach it to this email. For some users, this file may not exist. Don't be alarmed if that's your situation as well.



For the last log file, in Finder, go to the Go Menu > Go to Folder option again and enter the the following address:



"/private/var/log/"



Locate a file called "system.log" and attach it to the same email.



Thanks!

ashleyk

OK I'll do that but curiously there is no Knox folder at ~/Library/Logs/Knox/.

MikeT

Just an update to anybody reading this, we've fixed the bug related to this in the 2.1.13 update but it doesn't work for older backups, only for newer backups.



So, you'd have to move the older backups out and then let Knox create fresh backups. After that, Knox will handle the backups much better.



I apologize for the inconvenience.

ashleyk

I think this bug has come back having just looked at my backup folder for Knox using 2.1.14. I haven't looked inside there for a while but there are several versions of certain archives, even though I set the preferences to limit it to the latest two. In addition I only have backups set for once a week on a Sunday evening but this is happening at different intervals.



I know I previously deleted the whole lot and started from scratch, so this shouldn't be happening in theory.



[img]http://www.sunnymede.net/screenshots/285.gif[/img]

MikeT

Hi Ashley,



By a whole lot, do you mean you deleted the entire backup folder and started over with Knox 2.1.4?



Let's try something else instead, please follow these steps to reset the Knox preferences:



1. Quit Knox.



2. Open Finder and select the Go Menu > Go to Folder option. Type or copy the following address in there without the quotes:

"~/Library/Preferences"



3. Move the "com.knoxformac.knox.plist" file to your desktop



4. Start Knox. Since Knox thinks this is the first time you've run it on this computer, you will see the Welcome screen.



5. If you have existing Knox vaults, go to Knox's Preferences > Vaults pane. You should now drag from the Finder any Knox vaults that you want to "manage" within Knox to the Vaults area. A green plus-sign ("+") will appear and you can release the vault. Repeat with any other vaults.



6. Go to the Backup pane now and create a new Knox Backup Folder, don't select your previous Backup folder and don't create a new Backup folder inside the previous Backups folder.



7. Keep track of this for a few weeks and see if it'll work better now.





I hope this helps, please let me know.



Thanks!

ashleyk

Hi Mike,

Something is wrong here and it seems like a bit of a mess. Previously I deleted the entire contents of the backups folder but not the folder itself. I just tried removing the preference file as instructed and started Knox again but there was no welcome screen, presumably because several vaults already exist and their relative preference files were clearly visible in the user Library.



I've followed the other steps and then setup an automated backup schedule to start a few minutes ago in the newly created backups folder but it didn't happen. In addition the Knox icon isn't showing up in the menu bar now as selected in preferences. Rather strangely each time I open the vaults now it makes changes to DropBox that take 15 minutes to upload even though I haven't changed anything in the vaults themselves.



Thanks



Ashley

ashleyk

Just to update on that, the Knox icon is now showing up correctly in the menu bar following a relaunch and after resetting the backup location the backups did work. That fine print catches you out every time <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_blush.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='(blush)' />

khad

Glad that Mike was able to get that sorted out for you. I hope you have a wonderful weekend! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

ashleyk

I've just had a look in the backups folder and Knox is still saving more than the designated 2 copies as shown in the attachment. I'm also seeing that Knox is failing to startup at login despite having that option selected in the preferences, so I'm having to start it manually. In general it seems to be working reliably but these two points are remarkably persistent.



[img]http://www.sunnymede.net/screenshots/knox_325.gif[/img]

khad

What is odd is that some of the backups are duplicates (rather than three unique backups). Note the "1" at the end of several of the file names.



I'm going to ping the devs on this to see what else they think could be happening. Thanks for hanging in there.

chadseld

If you trash the backups, and trash the Knox preferences, this problem should go away. It's a bit hard following the thread, but have you tried trashing the preferences and the backups at the same time and then relaunching Knox?



Knox handles backups in a bit of a strange manner. It stores paths to the backups in its preferences, instead of scanning the filesystem. This makes it somewhat brittle to file system changes.



Also, a backup should only be created if the vault has been modified. So you must mount the vault, edit something in it, and unmount it for knox to create a newer backup.



I hope that helps.

ashleyk

OK I just tried deleting the backups which was easy but when I looked at the preference files for Knox I thought it looked all wrong, so I've attached a screenshot for you to see. Why so many files? I don't even have that many vaults.



In reality I have some vaults that change daily, while others may never change at all so I understand there will be changes in that regard.



[img]http://www.sunnymede.net/screenshots/knox_326.gif[/img]

khad

Make sure Knox is not running and go ahead and remove all those [b]com.knoxformac.knox.plist[/b] files. If you could check back in a while (maybe a few days to a week) and let us know if the preferences are "spawning" like that after you delete them all.

ashleyk

OK that's done and I'll keep an eye on it. So far it all looks normal.

khad

I'm optimistic. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />



Please keep us posted. I know you will. You've been great to have around. Keeps us on our toes in the best possible way.

ashleyk

OK I've just looked again and I see it's still happening.



[img]http://www.sunnymede.net/screenshots/348.gif[/img]





[img]http://www.sunnymede.net/screenshots/349.gif[/img]

khad

First, apologies for the long delay in replying here.



I talked to the rest of the team, and this is definitely something we are hoping to resolve "soon", but it may not be possible until after 1Password 4 is released and we can free up some developer resources for it. I'm really sorry I don't have a better answer right now, but we have not forgotten about this.



Please let me know if there is anything else I can help with in the meantime.

ashleyk

Thanks for raising this issue with the developers. It's not a major bug that stops me from using Knox and I just have a clear out every month or so but clearly it would be good to see this bug squashed when possible.



For me the more aggravating problem is the 1Password helper red warning sign in the browser extension, which has been consistently popping up since the day I installed 3.9. I went through this with support and thought we had it licked but a couple days later it came back again. This never happened under 3.8, so I'm hoping version 4 will finally cure this. At this end I think I've done everything possible.

khad

Could you please send us a Diagnostics Report? That should never be happening at all. There are no known issues in 1Password 3.9 which we have been unable to resolve that should cause any trouble with the Helper not connecting to the browser extension.



Here are the instructions for generating a Diagnostics Report. If you generated one before using an older version of the tool, please download the latest version of the tool to generate the new report:



http://support.agilebits.com/kb/troubleshooting/create-a-diagnostics-report-to-help-agilebits-help-you



Then attach the entire file to a private support ticket:



http://support.agilebits.com/discussion/new



I'm sure we can resolve it, but if we didn't know you were still having trouble, it is not possible for us to help. Thank you in advance for giving us the opportunity to help resolve it once and for all.

ashleyk

I've already sent in several diagnostic reports previously. We've removed preferences, fixed permissions, reinstalled 1Password and more besides. I can send in another diagnostic report but this is a problem that has never gone away for more than a day or two since I upgraded to 3.9. It comes and goes throughout the day with no apparent rhyme or reason, though I've noticed that it often disappears if I start up the main app after having tried the browser extension first, so it looks like the helper is failing to start properly.

khad

[quote]…it looks like the helper is failing to start properly.[/quote]



If that is the case, this is actually a bug in OS X that we have tracked down which can prevent 1Password Helper from starting at login in rare instances. Sadly, 1Password is not the only application affected by this.



The good news is that reports from users who are affected by this particular bug indicate that the issue is resolved in OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion and also the forthcoming 10.7.5 update in Lion.



One thing that we have seen some success with is disabling "Automatic Login" in [b]System Preferences > Users & Groups > Login Options[/b]. If you have that enabled, try disabling it and see if that helps. Even if it is already disabled, try enabling it, restarting, then disabling it. It sounds insane — I know — but it has worked for several users.



If that doesn't resolve the issue for you, you can "kickstart" the Helper by launching the main 1Password application after a fresh boot (as you discovered). You don't need to leave it running, but it will launch the Helper which will persist even after you quit the main 1Password application.



Please let me know how it goes.

ashleyk

In my case automatic login is disabled by default and I believe that is because I have FileVault enabled. Looking at this now there is no way to enable it without first disabling FileVault as far as I can tell. Perhaps my problems here are a by product of this issue, though a quick bit of digging shows that I upgraded to 3.9 a month after I installed Lion and this was definitely never a problem with 1Password 3.8.



I have kick started the helper in the past as you have suggested but there are still times during the day when the problem comes and goes for no apparent reason. My guess is that we will see 10.7.5 within the next day or two and 10.8 seems slated to arrive within the next week so it will be curious to see if that fixes it. I have just saved a troubleshooting report to my desktop while the problem was occurring but at this point perhaps it makes more sense to wait a day or so and see if the OS X update fixes something.

khad

Yep, we have definitely seen this related to use of FileVault. There is something about how FileVault changes the login process that creates some problem for some (but not all) users. The issue only affects 1Password 3.9 as it uses a different Apple-recommended method to load the Helper at startup than 3.8.



[quote]I have kick started the helper in the past as you have suggested but there are still times during the day when the problem comes and goes for no apparent reason.[/quote]

It sounds like it may be a different issue if you have trouble with the Helper apart from it simply not launching when you log in to your OS X account.



As you said, though, it may be easier to wait for Apple to release the update in order to rule it out as a possible source of the problem. If you don't mind sitting tight for just a bit longer, it could really help.

ashleyk

I am a little wary of saying anything in case it creates a jinx but since updating to 10.8 over 24 hours ago I haven't seen a glimpse of the helper warning message in 1Password. I'll keep an eye on it but I can't remember the last time I went 24 hours straight without this problem so it looks like the OS update may have been the cure.

khad

Awesome! I won't speak too loudly in front of Mountain Lion so as not to wake his wrath, but I'm glad that the initial experience has been positive so far. This is a huge weight lifted for you, our other customers affected by this bug, and obviously us. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />