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Wi-Fi Syncing
Ok, I buy 1Password 4 and I have a question:
How can I sync data between Mac now? I use 1Password 3.8.20 in Mac.
There is no WiFi sync anymore. iCloud sync doesn't works with 1Password Mac and I use no Dropbox.
Greetings,
Bernd
[b]Note from Jeff Shiner (administrator):[/b]
[i]Thank you all for your thoughts and comments on this thread. It is clear that there is currently a hole with 1Password 4 for those who prefer to sync directly. Each of you are important to us and we'd like to find a good answer.
We are investigating how to best enable direct syncing with 1Password 4. We have invited a few people from this thread to our Beta program to help ensure a good solution. We will update you once we have more details.[/i]
How can I sync data between Mac now? I use 1Password 3.8.20 in Mac.
There is no WiFi sync anymore. iCloud sync doesn't works with 1Password Mac and I use no Dropbox.
Greetings,
Bernd
[b]Note from Jeff Shiner (administrator):[/b]
[i]Thank you all for your thoughts and comments on this thread. It is clear that there is currently a hole with 1Password 4 for those who prefer to sync directly. Each of you are important to us and we'd like to find a good answer.
We are investigating how to best enable direct syncing with 1Password 4. We have invited a few people from this thread to our Beta program to help ensure a good solution. We will update you once we have more details.[/i]
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Comments
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The biggest issue with the update I have discovered. I don't want my data on iCloud, and certainly NOT DropBox. WiFi sync was great. Appears there is a file sync, but with no documentation on version 4, not certain how it works, and if it can be used with multiple devices--or if so, if there will be collisions if more than one device is connected.Flag 0
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I just found the help pages for IOS version 4. Does Agile have anything else to offer?
Appears that iTunes sync is unidirectional. With WiFi sync removed, mobile users can no longer do bidirectional updates without connecting to the cloud.
I'm certain Agile is convinced that the Cloud is the way to go, but many of your customers do not want to put password files in the cloud, under any circumstance.
Can you please provide more clarity on how we can enable bidirectional sync without the use of the cloud, whether it be through iTunes sync or WiFi sync?
ThanksFlag 0 -
File Sync works with iTunes. Sync the first time wtih the new 1Password. After that is complete, go to Apps in iTunes, select 1Password and click Add. Navigate to your keycheck for 1Password on your desktop system and add it. Now sync again.
In 1Password for iOS go to the Sync option. It will show an error for File Sync with instructions to tap to merge. Do that and let it merge the records.
That is how I FINALLY got my OS X data on my iOS device(s - still have to check iPhone but this is how the iPad got updated).Flag 0 -
@Tony: Your instructions are more clear that those from Agile. That's what I ended up doing as well. But we appear to be missing bi-directional sync. You can get the data on the device, or off, but it's a manual operation each way. Managing these over multiple devices would be a mess.Flag 0
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Where is Wifi-sync hidden in 1Password 4 for iOS??
I can't imagine that the practical function was taken out and only copy is available through iTunes. Yes copy, this can't be called "sync".
It's a no-go to transfer very secure passwords over a cloud for syncing! You can write it's double-triple AES 8192bit, but I want to choose where to copy my data!!
I choose 1Password because of Wifi-sync in my own secured LAN. I choose 1Password because of the easy Wifi-sync.
And now it's taken out without a notice! I hope you're just kidding and give us back this feature???
What's next? Remove browser integration?Flag 0 -
Agile, I am disappointed in you. You've changed the two things that make 1P3 perfect for me - the mobile MP and WiFi Sync. I never understand why software companies remove things from their products when surely they know people have adopted those features into their tech lives. For all the great things you do, these couple are steps backward. I feel you've had a "too many cooks" meeting at some point and just changed things for change sake.
<img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> I can't upgrade to this.Flag 0 -
I'm surprised so many rely on Wi-Fi sync. Seems like a dinosaur to be honest.
Security is always a blend of compromise between convenience and absolute security.
I understand the general concerns with cloud storage (iCloud, Dropbox) but if the contents are fully encrypted and never transmitted in the clear at any point I fail to see the issue. Just my two cents.
Also I don't think Agile is "pushing" Dropbox, it's just about the universal standard nowadays for sync of things across multiple machines and platforms. Personally I'm sticking with iCloud as I don't need functionality at this time beyond iOS devices.Flag 0 -
[quote name='cpabster' timestamp='1355454866' post='65142']
I understand the general concerns with cloud storage (iCloud, Dropbox) but if the contents are fully encrypted and never transmitted in the clear at any point I fail to see the issue. Just my two cents..
[/quote]
Exactly no software and cloud service is secure. This isn't any boring forum passwords which I save into 1Password. Then I have also no reason to save things on foreign servers.
Now I must drive through a big city with my money when I take it from kitchen to sleeping room. And I must drive the route and can't choose the route for myself: there is no option to choose my own WebDAV server
Please understand other people. We don't want to take your iCloud or Dropbox sync and there is the code for Wifi sync at Agile Bits. Even inserting the options for own WebDAV servers isn't any problem.Flag 0 -
I agree. We used to have the choice to do local syncing. I don't want my password files flying around the internet. The iTunes option is not synchronisation.Its just backup with some cynical marketing words wrapped around it pretending to be sync. I am a long time customer and immediately purchased the new app on the basis that Agilebits have up to this point been a very good customer focused supplier and seem to try hard to give us what we need. They have seriously dropped the ball with this one. I am close to requesting a refund and looking for an alternative.Flag 0
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Same for me. WiFi sync was the right tradeoff between convenience and security for me. I don't want to give the keys to my whole digital life to a cloud provider (not even encrypted by a password, which I have to type every time I want to access my passwords, so it is not long enough as I would want it to be).
Please add WiFi sync or sync via an own server, otherwise I'll have to look for an alternative to 1Password.Flag 0 -
Wi-Fi Sync has been removed from 1Password 4 for iOS because, honestly, it was not a great customer experience. It was difficult to set up, and more so, difficult for many customers to maintain. The app on the Mac and the iOS device would need to be open simultaneously, and it was a very manual process.
Also, if the Wi-Fi network’s information changed, sync would break completely. You have no idea how many routers we’ve asked customers to reboot!
Cloud syncing via iCloud (iOS for now, Mac soon) and Dropbox is effortless and automatic. It provides the best experience for customers because it is consistent, fast, and reliable. It is also secure:
[url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password3/cloud_storage_security.html"][size=5][b]Security of storing 1Password data in the cloud[/b][/size][/url]
If the cloud is not your cup of tea, we have added [url="http://learn.agilebits.com/1Password4/iOS/Sync/iTunes-File-Sharing/itfs-getting-started.html"]iTunes File Sharing[/url]. iTunes File Sharing works over USB or iTunes’ built-in Wi-Fi Sync for your device. It skips the Internet entirely and connects either directly to your computer, or at most over your local wireless network.Flag 0 -
I agree that iTunes File Sharing is more of a backup/transfer procedure than any kind of valid "sync" solution.
However, while I do feel some sympathy over the loss of Wi-Fi sync for the people who refuse to put their data in the cloud, I find it an interesting argument because with the exception of relatively few extremely security conscious users, most people are [i]already[/i] living at least partially in the cloud with data that is much less secure (e.g. e-mail). Even if one is concerned enough to be running your own mail server, most of your e-mail travels across the Internet unencrypted and I'm not sure I'd trust people who work on routers any more or less than I'd trust the people working at Apple or Dropbox. Vectors for things like identity theft are rarely your actual passwords -- especially if it's going to take half a century to get at them.
In other words, the anti-cloud concerns are valid only for those who are truly security conscious enough to actually exercise extreme caution about what they put online in general terms. However, if you have a Facebook or Gmail account, you've got bigger concerns than putting your very-highly-encrypted 1Password data out there.
Further, regardless of where you choose to store the data, using 1Password shouldn't be an excuse for careless password management. Continuing to rotate your critical passwords on a regular basis is good practice no matter which system you're using, and it's always a good idea to maintain a list of critical passwords that should be changed immediately at even the slightest hint of a security compromise.
I should add that I write this as somebody who went through the process of eschewing the cloud completely a few years ago. I set up my own hardened servers, put all of my data under my direct control and exercised extreme caution about what was sent out using unencrypted (non-S/MIME) e-mail, stored nothing on cloud services, and used local Wi-Fi sync for everything from 1Password to OmniFocus. In the end, after much research and thought and my own personal threat-risk assessment, I decided that the tradeoffs simply weren't worth it. In the end, for important data, good encryption is the key (no pun intended), and if you have that it really doesn't matter [i]where[/i] you store your data.
I think for some people there's a lack of understanding of what good encryption is actually capable of that has been hindered by all of the movies where some computer-whiz cracks an NSA or alien cipher in a matter of seconds. I laugh every time I see a scene like this, and in reality it's just as unrealistic as watching a TV detective pick a lock with a nail file in seconds, a car that can fly through the air or a helicopter that can do Mach 2.0. Only in Hollywood can the laws of physics and mathematics be rewritten on the whim of a screenwriter or director.
Note that I don't think any of this excuses the fact that if somebody bought 1Password 4 expecting Wi-Fi sync (a reasonable expectation), then they have a right to be upset. While there is a "caveat emptor" aspect here, the fact that Wi-Fi sync is no longer available isn't accurately communicated anywhere that the average user would see. I'm trying to suggest alternatives for those who might be willing to consider something other than Wi-Fi sync.Flag 0 -
Your choice to disable Wifi-sync in 1Password 4 feels like Apple disable copy/paste with shortcut keys because they "think" no one can handle this. Yes, maybe grandma doesn't need keyboard shortcuts...
[quote name='khad' timestamp='1355478854' post='65209']
It was difficult to set up, and more so, difficult for many customers to maintain.
[/QUOTE][list]
[*]no one need to use this feature it is too difficult to setup
[*]is it really easier to "sync" (<- copy!!) this many steps with iTunes??
[/list]
[QUOTE]
The app on the Mac and the iOS device would need to be open simultaneously, and it was a very manual process.
[/QUOTE]
Where is the problem? This is [u]exactly[/u] like Wifi-sync between Apples iTunes and the iOS device. Apple trust their users that they can do this process. You don't trust them?
And the copy orgy from 1Password through iTunes to the iOS device (and back) isn't very manual? Yes, right, it's [u]extremely manual[/u] and a mess!
[QUOTE]
Cloud syncing via iCloud (iOS for now, Mac soon) and Dropbox is effortless and automatic. It provides the best experience for customers because it is consistent, fast, and reliable. It is also secure:
[/QUOTE]
Yes, but it's an [b][u]unsecure place[/u][/b] which I can't administrate. I even don't want to give any [u]private and personal[/u] pictures from my cat at other PC, servers and cloud services when I don't want to spread private and personal pictures. And at 1Password I don't store pictures of my cat...
If you don't like to re-add Wifi-sync, where's the problem to add ẂebDAV-SSL settings for advanced users? Then there is a choice where to save the files.
Otherwise, please give us back the money. I use iPhone for many years and I don't wrote any feedback at the App store. Yesterday I wrote the first comment!
I'm very frustrated.
You app and especially Wifi-sync was one of the feature I told my friends and say 'look, how easy Mac and iPhone works together, even password syncing works easy and in a secure way. Please show me a solution on Linux Desktop with Android'. And they don't have an answer...
Now, with 1Password 4 this feature is lost.
I'm very very frustrated!!Flag 0 -
[quote name='khad' timestamp='1355478854' post='65209']
Wi-Fi Sync has been removed from 1Password 4 for iOS because, honestly, it was not a great customer experience. It was difficult to set up, and more so, difficult for many customers to maintain. The app on the Mac and the iOS device would need to be open simultaneously, and it was a very manual process.[/quote]
I'm sorry to hear that as 1Password 4 looks like a great app, but without WiFi syncing I have no use for it. I do find it a bit odd that the iTunes file sync option was added as all as it doesn't seem to offer any bidirectional sync and I personally find the user experience quite bad.
For now I will switch back to 1Password Pro, but it is very disappointing that the only way to find out about the removal of WiFi sync is to purchase the app(if you don't frequent these forums). If I had known beforehand, I would not have purchased the app.Flag 0 -
[quote name='jhollington' timestamp='1355488394' post='65229']
However, while I do feel some sympathy over the loss of Wi-Fi sync for the people who refuse to put their data in the cloud, I find it an interesting argument because with the exception of relatively few extremely security conscious users, most people are [i]already[/i] living at least partially in the cloud with data that is much less secure (e.g. e-mail). Even if one is concerned enough to be running your own mail server, most of your e-mail travels across the Internet unencrypted and I'm not sure I'd trust people who work on routers any more or less than I'd trust the people working at Apple or Dropbox. Vectors for things like identity theft are rarely your actual passwords -- especially if it's going to take half a century to get at them.
In other words, the anti-cloud concerns are valid only for those who are truly security conscious enough to actually exercise extreme caution about what they put online in general terms. However, if you have a Facebook or Gmail account, you've got bigger concerns than putting your very-highly-encrypted 1Password data out there.
[/quote]
Comparing saving your complete centralized password database with some emails flying over the internet is not very accurate. The escalation of an email being read versus your entire password database falling in the wrong hands is not quite the same. Security analysis should consider both risk and escalation.
[quote name='jhollington' timestamp='1355488394' post='65229']
Further, regardless of where you choose to store the data, using 1Password shouldn't be an excuse for careless password management. Continuing to rotate your critical passwords on a regular basis is good practice no matter which system you're using, and it's always a good idea to maintain a list of critical passwords that should be changed immediately at even the slightest hint of a security compromise.
[/quote]
I believe consensus is that changing passwords is not adding much to security unless there is suspicion of a compromise.
[quote name='jhollington' timestamp='1355488394' post='65229']
I think for some people there's a lack of understanding of what good encryption is actually capable of that has been hindered by all of the movies where some computer-whiz cracks an NSA or alien cipher in a matter of seconds. I laugh every time I see a scene like this, and in reality it's just as unrealistic as watching a TV detective pick a lock with a nail file in seconds, a car that can fly through the air or a helicopter that can do Mach 2.0. Only in Hollywood can the laws of physics and mathematics be rewritten on the whim of a screenwriter or director.
[/quote]
Encryption may be strong but it is usually the implementation that fails to properly secure stuff. We know for a long time that "testing shows the presence, not the absence of bugs" (Dijkstra,1969).
If Wifi sync does not return I would kindly request my money back and look for other options. Any suggestions?Flag 0 -
[quote name='jhollington' timestamp='1355488394' post='65229']
few extremely security conscious users, most people are [i]already[/i] living at least partially in the cloud with data that is much less secure (e.g. e-mail).
[/QUOTE]
I don't send my credit card over E-Mail, that's a big difference between cheap text-mails and secure data. And yes, I have an own mail server running with TLS enabled.
Please understand that I don't want to drive my money ("password") in a safe ("AES") through the city ("cloud"), when I only want to take my money from one pocket ("Mac") to my other pocket ("iPhone"). At home! When other people like this, I've no problem, but this can't be a must-have for other ones.
I've no problem when they do bungee jumping because it's "really secure". But I don't want to be hurt when I don't want to bungee jumping because only then an easy sync is included.
What's the problem? I'm no dictator. I'm not the one to remove iCloud, Dropbox, $whatever sync, I only want to have Wifi-sync back. The code is there (at 1Password3).Flag 0 -
[quote name='qjb' timestamp='1355493442' post='65248']
Comparing saving your complete centralized password database with some emails flying over the internet is not very accurate. The escalation of an email being read versus your entire password database falling in the wrong hands is not quite the same. Security analysis should consider both risk and escalation.[/quote]
I think for the truly security conscious person, you'd be mostly correct. Most people are not that careful about what they send out via e-mail, however -- even those who have an inexplicable distrust of the cloud.
[quote]I believe consensus is that changing passwords is not adding much to security unless there is suspicion of a compromise.[/quote]
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If you're in a situation where you think there may be an unknown potential for compromise (which, let's face it, is possible with [i]any[/i] system), rotating your passwords is just good sense. Even though I follow very safe practices when using my debit/credit cards, I change my PINs on a monthly basis simply because I have no way of knowing if they have been compromised. Similarly, in today's world, even if you're [i]not[/i] using the cloud, there's no way to be completely certain that your passwords haven't been compromised in some other way.
[quote]Encryption may be strong but it is usually the implementation that fails to properly secure stuff. We know for a long time that "testing shows the presence, not the absence of bugs" (Dijkstra,1969).[/quote]
True enough, but as with anything else, it's a balancing act. In my example above, I could change my credit/debit card PINs every day if I wanted to be overly concerned, but I feel that the cycle that I use is sufficient for my needs.
Similarly, I feel that the encryption provided by 1Password, which has been documented and reviewed numerous times, is sufficient for my needs regardless of where I choose to store my data, and I don't consider cloud services from two established companies to be particularly insecure either, especially combined with the fact that you can always change your passwords in the event of a suspected compromise (when Dropbox "failed open" a couple of years ago, even though my account wasn't compromised, and even though I trusted 1Password's encryption, I still went and changed all of my critical passwords anyway -- again, an ounce of prevention).Flag 0 -
I used a Mac password application with a companion iOS app for several years (Wallet) which had the same "Wi-Fi Sync" operation. I never used it once. The other day I tried it just for grins and ... FAIL.
I can understand completely the support headaches that come from this. Of course you don't eliminate it completely with Cloud operations. Look how many "Dropbox XXXXX" threads are in this forum alone. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
Those who rely on some form of manual sync seem to me akin to those who still prefer a horse and buggy over modern transportation. They may be out there, but they are far and few between. (Vocal though.)
At the very least I agree that the removal of Wi-Fi Sync should be added to the application listing.Flag 0 -
[quote name='bring wifi-sync back' timestamp='1355493800' post='65250'][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I don't send my credit card over E-Mail, that's a big difference between cheap text-mails and secure data.[/quote][/font][/color]
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]While it sounds like you're probably not in this category, this is a common trap that many people do fall into -- making the assumption that because they're not transmitting any blatantly confidential information like credit card numbers over e-mail, they're somehow completely safe. However, the amount of seemingly-innocuous data that travels through people's e-mail accounts that can be used for identity theft is actually quite surprising. It's not credit cards that hackers and identity thieves use any more, but rather routine personal data that most people pass around without even realizing it. Consider the Wired editor who was recently hacked; granted the [i]result[/i] of the hack was made much worse [i]because[/i] he had his life in the cloud, but the basic information required to perform the hack were not things like credit card numbers -- at least not full ones -- but things that would routinely pass through most people's e-mail messages.[/color][/font]
[quote]And yes, I have an own mail server running with TLS enabled.[/quote]
As do I, but TLS is only a useful option if you restrict e-mail communications to only other mail servers that do TLS, which most don't.
[quote]Please understand that I don't want to drive my money ("password") in a safe ("AES") through the city ("cloud"), when I only want to take my money from one pocket ("Mac") to my other pocket ("iPhone"). At home!
When other people like this, I've no problem, but this can't be a must-have for other ones.[/quote]
Actually, the analogy would be driving your money in a safe through a city where all of the roads were closed to other traffic. Cloud services aren't inherently that insecure, and you're not publishing your 1Password data file on a public blog for anybody to grab.
That said, I'm not disputing your point or desire to have Wi-Fi sync. As I indicated in my previous post, I'm just trying to promote discussion more for people who are willing to consider alternatives. I was one who refused to go anywhere near the cloud a couple of years ago, and in fact spent a while going back and forth on it before finally deciding that I was okay with using the cloud in a limited, security-conscious fashion.
[quote]What's the problem? I'm no dictator. I'm not the one to remove iCloud, Dropbox, $whatever sync, I only want to have Wifi-sync back. The code is there (at 1Password3).[/quote]
From what I've read (and I'm just an end user like yourself, with no inside info), the code would need to be updated to handle the new data file format, and it seems like 1Password had simply grown tired of dealing with the myriad support requests that stemmed from people with broken Wi-Fi networks.
Personally, I am hoping that Agile does something better with iTunes File Sharing when 1Password 4 is released for the desktop. The system right now is so kludgy that I have to wonder why they included it at all unless they have something better up their sleeve. An iTunes-based 1Password data sync that worked seamlessly would actually be a [i]far[/i] better solution than the old Wi-Fi sync, since it would require the user to coordinate two separate applications with their own network communications stack. The data would be updated whenever the user synced with iTunes, travelling along the same conduit as apps, media content and PIM data.Flag 0 -
For me Wifi was never a problem with multiple iOS devices or even upgrading devices over the years.
To blindly remove a feature without first seeing how well used said feature was liked, disliked or used is wrong. It usually comes back in bad customer experience which then impacts word of mouth and eventually the bottom line.
And has been noted, DO NOT equate emails with the full, secure password database. Emails were never secure and that is a risk I take. My passwords have been secure and now with the removal of WiFi sync I have no EASY way to move passwords from my OS X system to my iOS devices. THIS IS A BIG FAIL!!!Flag 0 -
[quote name='TonyK' timestamp='1355501532' post='65264']To blindly remove a feature without first seeing how well used said feature was liked, disliked or used is wrong. It usually comes back in bad customer experience which then impacts word of mouth and eventually the bottom line.[/quote]
I think it's fair to say that Agile should have at least communicated this change better. As much as I may personally feel that Wi-Fi sync is largely unnecessary, I really do sympathize with those who still want the feature for whatever reason (and there are valid reasons, even beyond security, to still use this approach), and of course had no idea that it was removed in 1Password 4.
In other words, I think it's perfectly reasonable to debate whether Agile should have left the feature in or deprecated it, but I also think it's perfectly reasonable to expect such a large change to have been more effectively communicated on the purchasing page and in other places so that users who still want Wi-Fi sync could have chosen to avoid this upgrade path; 1Password 3.x continues to work fine and will apparently still be supported for quite some time if for no other reason than to provide an option for users of pre-iOS 6 devices.
[quote]And has been noted, DO NOT equate emails with the full, secure password database. Emails were never secure and that is a risk I take. My passwords have been secure and now with the removal of WiFi sync I have no EASY way to move passwords from my OS X system to my iOS devices. THIS IS A BIG FAIL!!![/quote]
I don't equate them directly, at least not on the surface, but I think the differences are addressed in the unique way each is handled. E-mail is generally unencrypted while 1Password data is quite securely encrypted.
Basically, for me, the difference in sensitivity is handled by the level of encryption, not the choice of storage or transport mediums. Obviously other people have a different opinion, which is completely fair. I'm not criticizing those people for feeling that way, just noting that it's not true in every case, and those of us who do in fact choose to store our 1Password data in the cloud are not idiots either.
As I said earlier, I think the main failing here comes from a lack of understanding, and therefore a lack of trust, regarding encryption technologies. While no technology is bulletproof, and exploits do appear from time to time, this is actually much rarer than you would expect when dealing with raw [i]data[/i]. Most cryptographic exploits you see are found in the [i]code[/i] that interprets that data, or the procedures around it (one good example: the storage of the Master Password in the iOS keychain in 1Password 3.x). I'm far from a cryptographic expert myself, but I've been reading and studying cryptographic technology and related concepts for over 20 years, and have worked as a security consultant in a number of extremely high-security environments. Even military applications, which often run on closed, private, fibre-optic networks are forced to use open transmission channels and therefore need to rely on encryption to do so.
Everybody trusts at least some encryption systems blindly, yet many choose to get nervous about others. Most of us conduct online banking and e-commerce transactions over SSL encryption on a daily basis, and that's arguably more open to potential interception than your 1Password data living in iCloud or Dropbox, especially if you do so using public Wi-Fi networks at any point. It's the SSL encryption, not the transport channel, that protects these transactions in much the same way as 1Password's encryption protects that data. Even if you completely swear off unencrypted Wi-Fi networks, you're still trusting the people who work at your ISP and other Internet routing points every bit as much as you're trusting the employees of Apple or Dropbox.
Anyway, this is largely an academic discussion for me at this point, and I'm not trying to pick any fights here. I realize I'm not going to convince anybody who is dead-set against using the cloud, but I still find it an interesting discussion in broader terms.Flag 0 -
Hello,
I bought and upgraded all my 1password applications since I own a Mac (that's as old as OSX Tiger): 2 computer licences, and 2 iPod/iPad licences. The only thing I will say is that if Wifi Sync will not come back you will loose a customer, because I absolutely do not trust iCloud (why would I trust the company that built mobile me) and DropBox.
It's your choice not mine. If I had known that 1password 4 was built without Wifi Syncing I would have saved 6.99 euros and had directly choosen to find an alternative.Flag 0 -
[quote name='treizep' timestamp='1355507933' post='65279']because I absolutely do not trust iCloud (why would I trust the company that built mobile me) and DropBox.[/quote]
I'm curious: Is this lack of trust based primarily on concerns about reliability or security? I ask because you mention MobileMe, which had far more issues with the former and almost none with the latter.
Reliability is certainly a valid concern for me with [i]any[/i] cloud service, but since these are [i]sync[/i] services, it's not like you lose access to your data if they go down. You'd lose the ability to sync during that time period, but that's no different than if you're away from home and forgot to do a Wi-Fi sync of 1Password before you left.Flag 0 -
First, there is no reason to show other flaws to excuse to do it the same. 1Password 3 do this the right way.
[quote]Actually, the analogy would be driving your money in a safe through a city where all of the roads were closed to other traffic.[/quote]
Second, there is no reason to write about the part "driving into the city" when I want to take my money from one pocket to another [u]at home[/u] <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
[quote]consider alternatives[/quote]
Yes, consider alternative tools. And I don't stop writing in other forums about the decision to stop Wifi-sync.
[quote]the code would need to be updated to handle the new data file format[/quote]
You're just kidding? They will be paid from customers to do programming and doing it right.
I'm shocked what cheap arguments are written. If every company act like this, we will get this news in 2013:
[i]Adobe removes layer support, because the code would need to be updated to handle the new picture format. Layers was not a great customer experience for beginners. It was difficult to set up, and more so, difficult for many customers to maintain...[/i]Flag 0 -
[quote name='bring wifi-sync back' timestamp='1355508341' post='65282']First, there is no reason to show other flaws to excuse to do it the same. 1Password 3 do this the right way.[/quote]
Some, obviously including the developers at Agile, have argued that it's really not the"right way." Obviously you, and many others, disagree.
I'm not convinced it was the "right way" either, but I can appreciate and sympathize with those who truly feel a need for the Wi-Fi sync feature, and particularly for the fact that the disappearance of it was rather sudden.
[quote]Yes, consider alternative tools. And I don't stop writing in other forums about the decision to stop Wifi-sync.[/quote]
Fair enough -- that's your choice. If people are making an educated decision to avoid cloud services, so much the better. I just see far too many people out there in general who are scared of cloud services without fully understanding [i]why[/i].
For folks who have an inexplicable worry about storing 1Password data in the cloud, I think it's important to discuss these things, including the fact that 1Password data [i]is[/i] encrypted, and encryption is secure. I've had this discussion many times with users over the years -- concerning various cloud and encryption technologies -- and the default opinion of the average user seems to be that putting stuff in the cloud == automatically granting full access to their data for anybody who works at that company or manages to hack into their account.
[quote]You're just kidding? They will be paid from customers to do programming and doing it right.[/quote]
Firstly, I don't work for Agile, and know absolutely nothing about the code, so I'm purely guessing. However, I'm sure it's still much more complicated than simply "dropping in the code" -- the choice to update it or not requires some effort, and therefore some investment of time and money and is therefore a business decision. Further, the choice to [i]support[/i] a feature is also a question of whether a company wants to invest time and effort. Agile made that decision, and I can totally understand why it has made some people very unhappy, but I just don't like to see people oversimplifying these decisions in general -- there are always tradeoffs.
Companies remove features from products all the time. Look at Apple with iTunes 11. These decisions are not always popular, but I'm sure there are usually valid reasons behind them that usually go beyond mere capriciousness, and in all fairness Agile is at least offering at least some explanation and transparency for its decision here.Flag 0 -
[quote name='jhollington' timestamp='1355508172' post='65280']
I'm curious: Is this lack of trust based primarily on concerns about reliability or security? I ask because you mention MobileMe, which had far more issues with the former and almost none with the latter.
Reliability is certainly a valid concern for me with [i]any[/i] cloud service, but since these are [i]sync[/i] services, it's not like you lose access to your data if they go down. You'd lose the ability to sync during that time period, but that's no different than if you're away from home and forgot to do a Wi-Fi sync of 1Password before you left.
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I will not begin to argue for hours, I have my reasons, but if you think I'm wrong I have no problem to buy an other product. Keep your head in the sand, I don't bother...Flag 0
