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Wi-Fi Syncing
Comments
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Is this move proof enough that US authorities love to have user PWs stored in a dropbox or iCloud account? I said this for years. Agile even told me to stop posting that opinion in this forum right here.
Well I can't imagine another reason why wifi-sync should be removed. It worked flawlessly. Maybe so flawless that some people could not get ahold of your access data.
I'm not even going to start arguing if non-cloud sync is the right way or not. Please use your brains - storing your sensitive data in a cloud is not safe. That's really all that's to say.
It's a pity. Moving on to another software I guess. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />Flag 0 -
For me, Wi-Fi Sync was the main reason for buying 1Password. I am very disappointed. A few weeks ago, Cultured Code decided to remove Wi-Fi Sync from Things - so I switched to OmniFocus. I will never use iCloud for anything! Period. Who knows where the iCloud Data will be used or copied. Nobody knows. It makes no senses to change my MasterPassword, if an older copy of my data is available anywhere. And who knows, if the 1Password Keystore is really safe. For security reasons, i only sync a few folders of my 1Password data to my iPhone (yes, that is another missing feature in 1PW4).Flag 0
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Wow, as a long time customer I make it short: 1password 4 for iOS blows (and I don't start talking about the not working upgrade procedure from 1password 3). Forcing people to use the cloud is just stupid (sorry for the harsh language). Local Wifi syncing is certainly not perfect, but you have to acknowledge that many people don't want their passwords in the cloud. Simple as that. Please bring Wifi syncing back, otherwise you will loose paying customer, certainly me.Flag 0
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[quote name='treizep' timestamp='1355509802' post='65289']I will not begin to argue for hours, I have my reasons, but if you think I'm wrong I have no problem to buy an other product. Keep your head in the sand, I don't bother...[/quote]
I wasn't really trying to argue the point here; I was just genuinely curious since you brought up Apple's track record with MobileMe as a reason for not trusting iCloud.
I have no affiliation with Agile other than as a long-time 1Password customer, so I have no actual stake in this conversation at all. It's mostly just philosophical for me, and an effort to be generally helpful since I've talked to many people over the years with irrational fears of the Internet and misunderstandings regarding online security. I don't doubt that many users are in fact making informed decisions in these cases, and I can respect that even if I don't personally agree with their reasoning -- as with any other piece of software, we all have different needs here, and obviously unless Agile plans to bring Wi-Fi sync back (or a local solution equivalent to it), people with that need are going to end up being better served by a different product.
Personally, I really am hoping that Agile comes up with something in the desktop version of 1Password 4 that leverages the iTunes File Sharing in a more effective manner. I really do believe that's the "right" way to do a local sync -- by using iTunes as a conduit since most people are syncing with iTunes pretty regularly anyway, and there's no requirement to have both apps open (and unlocked) to perform the sync. The biggest thing that annoyed me back in the days when everything used Wi-Fi sync was having to run through a gamut of several apps I needed to ensure were synced up every time I left home. Obviously, the cloud solves that problem for me now, but I do think that iTunes File Sharing -- properly implemented -- would provide a much better solution for those who still want to rely on a local network sync.Flag 0 -
[quote name='jhollington' timestamp='1355511547' post='65296']
... an effort to be generally helpful since I've talked to many people over the years with irrational fears of the Internet and misunderstandings regarding online security.
[/quote]
What? Sorry, please do some security research first. Not even worth arguing on that basis. You seem like a happy fella and I have no intention to spoil that, but please do some research first.
* join some mailing lists about security aspects of computer usage (how about the gnupg.org users mailing list: http://www.gnupg.org/documentation/mailing-lists.en.html)
* read everything that's being posted
* think
* think again
* and then come back in 6 month and I'd be so very interested if you'd be willing to stand by what you have just stated above.
Talking about irrational, I think trusting your passwords to the cloud is rather irrational.Flag 0 -
[quote name='LosInvalidos' timestamp='1355512067' post='65299']What? Sorry, please do some security research first. Not even worth arguing on that basis. You seem like a happy fella and I have no intention to spoil that, but please do some research first.[/quote]
I've spent over twenty years researching this stuff, and I have read many mailing lists and Usenet groups over that time, many of which are populated by the paranoid, lunatic fringe, to varying degrees. Obviously, once you assume that there are hidden agendas around every corner, the entire nature of the discussion changes. Personally, I've always been a strong believer in the idea that there is far more stupidity than malice in the world.
[quote]Talking about irrational, I think trusting your passwords to the cloud is rather irrational.[/quote]
I'm not trusting my passwords to the cloud. I'm trusting my passwords to strong encryption. The same way I'm trusting my online banking transactions to SSL. Once that's in place, the storage and transport channels I choose to use become mostly irrelevant.Flag 0 -
[quote name='TerryP' timestamp='1355512598' post='65300']This is no sync! It is a simple file copy. And you have to open iTunes instead of 1PW.[/quote]
Yes, right now, and I agree that the feature is almost useless for any purpose other than transferring your data onto an iOS device for exclusive use on that device. However, I'm talking about the possibility of future developments...
Remember that right now we're only using the new version of 1Password on iOS -- the desktop versions are still the same old 3.9, at best. There's no telling what Agile might be planning for 1Password 4 for Mac and Windows. While I haven't looked into the details of how the directories and APIs work for iTunes File Sharing on the desktop side, in theory 1Password 4 could automatically sync to and from the iTunes File Sharing copy in much the same way that iCloud sync already works on the iOS side. As far as 1Password on iOS is concerned, iCloud sync is actually just a local sync; iOS moves the data between the device and iCloud, and 1Password just syncs between two local files. In theory, 1Password for Mac could do the same thing with a local file living in the appropriate iTunes File Sharing repository. This of course is assuming that Apple exposes the necessary pieces to allow this to happen.
Again, I don't work for 1Password, and I have no inside knowledge of any of the company's plans whatsoever. I'm completely theorizing here about what may be possible for them to do, and in fact I consider the current iTunes File Sharing implementation to be so useless that I can't see any other reason why they would have possibly bothered implementing it if they don't plan to at least try and do something useful with it.Flag 0 -
[quote name='jhollington' timestamp='1355512711' post='65301']
I'm not trusting my passwords to the cloud. I'm trusting my passwords to strong encryption. The same way I'm trusting my online banking transactions to SSL. Once that's in place, the storage and transport channels I choose to use become mostly irrelevant.
[/quote]
Sorry, but your logic is broken. E.g. see p.s.
Again, you said this is a philosophical discussion. Fine, but you are well aware that US authorities take great steps to e.g. request plenty of data from all mail services, facebook, twitter, dropbox, younameit. Then, if that is the case (I hope we can agree that it is, since it's provable, and this has nothing to do with any paranoia or similar, it's plain logical thinking), what makes you think that in a closed source software like 1Password there is no backdoor? Have you analyzed their source code? Also, what makes you think, you can trust an SSL certificate given out by a central authority and no way to prove, if it's right? If you are what you claim, than I assume you are well informed about the fact that in the last few years, there have been many instances in which global players in the SSL business have been compromised. And yet, here you are even claiming, that it doesn't even matter, which storage and transport channels you choose?!? Did you ever wonder why Tor and VPN exist? You think people pay for JonDo cascades just because they have no better way to spend their money?
The paranoia argument is so extremely weak (since it does not use any facts, it simply discredits people, that raise objections to the common narrative consensus) and yet it has been brought up by the mainstream for as long as this privacy discussion has been going on. I find that argument boring, since there's nothing to add to it. You can call those people paranoid all day, and still they have experiences and documented events that brought them to that sceptical viewpoint.
Why do you think Phil Zimmermann (the inventor of PGP) had to deal with legal persecution for over 10 years? Just because we was an insane paranoid? Quite the opposite is true. Authorities did not like the idea, of being unable to read, what people actually communicate. So they blankly said, exporting your source code is proliferation. Now that's insane.
I could continue an endless list at that place, but I have some actual work to do.
I'm not meaning to be rude, but downplaying the concerns of security aware users is just ... well, it makes me angry.
PS: I forgot: you certainly remember the case in which a creator of a CD-burning software had a backdoor key delivered with his software and then offered users to burn "save" and encrypted discs. We'll I'm sure that encrypted data would be extremely save in the cloud, wouldn't it?Flag 0 -
Dropping Wi-Fi sync is one of the reasons 1Password 4 is the separate app. We didn't want to break the existing workflow if someone used the Wi-Fi sync.
Wi-Fi sync will not be available in 1Password 4. We spent thousands of hours supporting users with Wi-Fi issues in 1Password 3. It is very difficult because there are so many moving parts and it requires very technical users.
Both Dropbox and iCloud sync are secure and provide much better experience.Flag 0 -
[quote name='LosInvalidos' timestamp='1355513228' post='65305']Sorry, but your logic is broken.[/quote]
It [i]is[/i] a philosophical discussion at this point, because you equate "security-aware users" with those who assume that the government is forcing companies to build back doors into everything. I recognize that many people do feel that way, but I'm simply not one of those people. At this point, you will assume that I'm either willfully ignorant or simply have my head buried in the sand and I'll in turn assume that you're part of the paranoid, lunatic fringe that I was referring to.
At this point, the discussion now becomes [i]completely[/i] philosophical, and completely non-productive. I certainly respect your right to have your opinion, but if you're assuming that conspiracies abound everywhere, we're just going to have to agree to disagree, because this is no longer about 1Password's encryption, the cloud, or Wi-Fi sync, but rather about a complete difference in our respective worldviews.
Of course the government isn't as altruistic as some are led to believe, and much of the basic stuff that goes on like requests for data from cloud companies is completely believable and unsurprising. However, I have also worked closely enough with both the military and law enforcement to know that there is far more stupidity than malice out there. Most conspiracy theories fail the Hanlon's razor test as they require far more intelligence and coordination than any government agency is ever capable of.
I say all of this not to draw you into a debate or belittle you in any way outside of my own perceptions (which shouldn't matter to you as I'm merely a random face on the Internet). We have a difference of opinion, and clearly you are also going to think of my response as suggesting that I'm off my rocker for [i]not[/i] seeing things in the same way as you do. Fair enough <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />Flag 0 -
[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1355514713' post='65309']Both Dropbox and iCloud sync are secure and provide much better experience.
[/quote]
It's like you don't read the posts here. Good luck with that attitude. Be stubborn and tell your customers what is right. This is always successful.Flag 0 -
[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1355514713' post='65309']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Dropping Wi-Fi sync is one of the reasons 1Password 4 is the separate app.[/font][/color]
[/quote]
Really?! Then why didn't you advertise this properly in the App Store app presentation along with all the new stuff you added? Sometimes the things you remove are the ones we care about!
[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1355514713' post='65309']
Both Dropbox and iCloud sync are secure and provide much better experience.
[/quote]
Aren't we dealing with a tool to handle securely our passwords? "User experience" here is second order. I don't want to be forced to have my password in the cloud just to have proper syncing.
Really well managed!Flag 0 -
jhollington: What differs between our arguments is, that you keep posting empty speech bubbles and I give examples. Plus you simply ignored what I wrote. So the whole Phil Zimmermann story didn't happen? He did not have to print his source code in book form to distribute it accross the planet? He was insane? Military was amused they no longer could read what the other side was writing? Government was amused, that now average people were capable of using save communication? Why do you think the german government payed a couple of hundred thousand euros to a company to code the so called "Staatstrojaner" analyzed by the famous hacker group chaos computer club and broadly discussed afterwards in the Bundestag (link to the german analysis: http://ccc.de/de/updates/2011/staatstrojaner). Why do you think they signed their analysis with their public key with the by now well know OpenPGP technology?
It turned out that the whole staatstrojaner was a bold violation of several fundamental rights. Why do you think the german constitutional court denied over 100 laws that the bundestag had passed? Because those laws were against constitutional law. One would think that politicians would know the constitution... well let me tell you this, they obviously don't, or choose to ignore it.
And here is your next totally empty speech bubble argument: "this has nothing to do with 1Password". Acutally, this has a lot to do with a software like 1Password. 1Password stores all your precious access data to all your logins. You think this isn't to authorities like sugar is to ants? Well, it is.
And if AgileBits chooses to not have this discussion, I'd highly question their integrity.
I have the feeling this thread might soon get closed so I'm making screenshots for documentation. Again, this is maybe because I'm paranoid. Maybe not, but who are you to judge?Flag 0 -
[quote name='wifisyncer' timestamp='1355515390' post='65314']
Really?! Then why didn't you advertise this properly in the App Store app presentation along with all the new stuff you added? Sometimes the things you remove are the ones we care about!
[/quote]
You are right. I will make sure we update the website and the FAQ to mention that Wi-Fi sync is not available in 1Password 4.
I am sorry for the trouble, I understand that you expected to see all of 1Password 3 features implemented in version 4 as well.Flag 0 -
[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1355515912' post='65316']
I am sorry for the trouble, I understand that you expected to see all of 1Password 3 features implemented in version 4 as well.
[/quote]
Let say that at minimum we expect useful features to remain. Are you now going to screw 1Password for Mac by releasing v4 with no WiFi Sync and overwriting the old version in passing? Just so we get prepared and find an alternative...Flag 0 -
[quote name='LosInvalidos' timestamp='1355515590' post='65315']
jhollington: What differs between our arguments is, that you keep posting empty speech bubbles and I give examples. Plus you simply ignored what I wrote. So the whole Phil Zimmermann story didn't happen? He did not have to print his source code in book form to distribute it accross the planet? He was insane?[/quote]
It's funny you bring up Phil Zimmermann, as I have actually spoken to the man, and he's at least partially responsible for stirring up my interest in cryptographic research, twenty years ago when public use of RSA encryption was in its fledgling days and PGP was basically brand new (I actually still have a PGP key floating around out there from that era). In early versions of PGP, Phil actually posted his contact info in the read me file, so one night I just called him up and decided to have what turned into a three-hour chat with him. It was both interesting and enlightening, and he was a really nice guy and truly a pleasure to talk to. I also didn't consider him to be in the slightest bit part of any kind of paranoid, lunatic fringe, and he certainly didn't give me the impression that he was developing encryption because the government was spying on people. His goals at the time were mostly academic, combined with the rather reasonable and common belief that people have a right to privacy.
However, the problem is that two people can look at the same set of circumstances and come to different conclusions. The issue around Zimmermann and PGP had far more to do with government intransigence and good old American dollars than anything more nefarious. The concerns around encryption laws in those days were that the encryption was [i]too[/i] good to allow into the hands of foreign governments, so the U.S. classified it as a "munition." At the same time, in possibly one of the first-ever instances of patent trolling, a company that actually wanted to [i]profit[/i] from this won the patent rights -- a company that had prior to that done nothing but litigate. A company we now know as "RSA Security" BTW. At no point was there ever a requirement that PGP have a back door built-in -- the government didn't say to Phil,"Okay, you can export this as long as we have a back door." They simply said, "No, this is a munition, you can't export it, period." This is under the same basic set of laws, BTW, that have Apple Store employees refusing to sell iPhones to Iranians.
Anyway, I'm getting off-topic, but again where our difference of opinion comes in is lies not in the facts of these things, but in our interpretations of them. We could go on back and forth all day, but we'll accomplish nothing other than dragging this thread completely off-topic.
As for 1Password and its encryption, it really comes down to the fact that you either trust 1Password, or you don't. I can't understand why somebody who honestly believes that 1Password has a backdoor into its encryption system is still using the product at all, even over a local Wi-Fi sync.Flag 0 -
[quote name='wifisyncer' timestamp='1355516271' post='65319']
Let say that at minimum we expect useful features to remain. Are you now going to screw 1Password for Mac by releasing v4 with no WiFi Sync and overwriting the old version in passing? Just so we get prepared and find an alternative...
[/quote]
Yes, I expect Wi-Fi sync to be removed from 1Password 4 for Mac. It will remain in version 3 only.Flag 0 -
[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1355516525' post='65322']
Yes, I expect Wi-Fi sync to be removed from 1Password 4 for Mac. It will remain in version 3 only.
[/quote]
You expect? ... way to go in "improving" 1Password.Flag 0 -
I would use the "Report a problem" functionality in iTunes and ask for a refund. What I'm doing now.Flag 0
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[quote name='jhollington' timestamp='1355511547' post='65296']
The biggest thing that annoyed me back in the days when everything used Wi-Fi sync was having to run through a gamut of several apps I needed to ensure were synced up every time I left home.[/quote]
Why do you wrote in every post useless things? You don't need Wifi-sync, so please stop writing about things you don't use. You're not god and I can think for myself what's ok or not. I'm not filling threads about iCloud and Dropbox sync with crap. Because it's their choice.Flag 0 -
Now you're just deliberately taking things out of context. I actually don't consider that to be a useless comment at all, since I was describing how "Wi-Fi syncing" could actually be brought back in a much better way.
The iTunes File Sharing "sync" method introduced in 1Password 4 for iOS already communicates with your computer over a local Wi-Fi network, using iTunes as the sync conduit. This feature is relatively useless for actual synchronization right now, but really that's just because 1Password on the [i]desktop[/i] hasn't been upgraded at all, so your desktop version doesn't even know about it. This leaves you with no choice but to copy files around manually.
It's possible (and I'm only speculating here -- I have no knowledge at all of what Agile is up to), that 1Password 4 for Mac/Windows could improve this by handling the synchronization of data between 1Password and the iTunes File Sharing repository. The result is you'd get Wi-Fi sync back in a much better way than it's implemented now; instead of opening 1Password on your desktop and iOS device, the data would just be updated whenever you synced with iTunes. This is still a local sync, but you wouldn't have to deal with having both apps running and configuring the sync specifically between those apps -- instead the data transfers would be handled by iTunes. In concept, this should be doable, assuming Apple allows third-party apps on the Mac/Windows side to properly access these iTunes File Sharing data repositories.
You'd also get [i]USB Sync[/i] for those are either don't have Wi-Fi networks or are concerned about this being a problem in work or school environments.
More importantly, this would take the burden of troubleshooting Wi-Fi problems off Agile's support group as well, since if there are communication issues, it's now Apple's problem, since it's between the iOS device and iTunes. The 1Password data is just another piece of information being passed between iTunes and the iOS device(s) that are syncing with it.
The final point (and the part you partially quoted) was that if all of the applications that supported local sync leveraged iTunes instead, it would be a much easier process for the end user, since all of the data would sync across in a single, normal iTunes sync operation, instead of forcing the user to open each app individually and sync its data with its corresponding desktop app, one at a time. The requirement to deal with this was one of the reasons I abandoned Wi-Fi sync myself in favour of the cloud, both in 1Password and several other apps.Flag 0 -
[quote name='jhollington' timestamp='1355521573' post='65331']
using iTunes as the sync conduit.[/quote]
This isn't sync, this is manual copy. EOD, I'm not wasting my time to read crap.Flag 0 -
[quote name='bring wifi-sync back' timestamp='1355522171' post='65336']
This isn't sync, this is manual copy. EOD, I'm not wasting my time to read crap.
[/quote]
Quoted for truth!
What we are missing here are constructive ideas being put forth by Agile employees. The reality is that they don't really seem to care about our needs for a "local sync" functionality, be it through WiFi or whatever. And Agile, please dont keep repeating the "iTunes File Sharing blah blah blah"... THIS IS NOT SYNC!!
All Agiles seems to be able to do is try to instruct us on what is the "one best way" for doing syncing which is going through the cloud. It's basically either THEIR way or the highway. Nice way to deal with your customers! They seems to care so much about users that they didn't even dare tell us beforehand that they were considering removing this functionality. Better have some unhappy customers paying 7 bucks for a useless piece of software that not selling at all because of openly mentioning a missing functionality.Flag 0 -
None of you are reading what I'm [u][i]actually writing[/i][/u] because you're spending far too much time being frustrated over the lack of Wi-Fi sync at all and the idea that it's [i]never [/i]coming back.
As I've already said, several times, [b][u][i]right now, at this point in time[/i][/u][/b], iTunes File Sharing is useless for "sync" purposes. I completely agree with what you're all saying.
The only points I've been trying to make is that this are the following:[list]
[*]On the desktop, we're still using 1Password 3.9.
[*]There is no 1Password 4 for anything other than iOS devices. Period.
[*]1Password 3.9 has no idea about any new features in 1Password 4 for iOS.
[*]This includes not only iTunes File Sharing, but also iCloud sync.
[/list]
Assuming Apple allows third-party developers to access the iTunes File Sharing data on your PC, it is possible that 1Password 4 for Mac/Windows could make this process much more seamless [u][i][b]in the future, once it actually comes out[/b][/i][/u], providing an improved Wi-Fi sync using iTunes File Sharing. 1Password 4 could handle reading and updating the iTunes File Sharing data file on your Mac or PC, which would then sync to your device via iTunes instead of directly between the two 1Password apps. If this can be done, it would be a much better solution all around.
I don't work for Agile. I know nothing of Agile's plans. I haven't even checked to see if it's possible for third-party apps to interface with iTunes File Sharing data in this way. However, if this could work, it's a really good idea and I think it would make everybody happy. It provides all of the additional security benefits of Wi-Fi syncing as it exists in 1Password 3.x without requiring Agile or 1Password to actually manage network communications.
FWIW, this is as much directed as a suggestion to Agile as it is to others in this thread as a means of solving the problem in a more creative way. For all I know, they're already working on it, but again I have absolutely zero inside information on this. I just think it's a good idea.Flag 0 -
[quote name='jhollington' timestamp='1355523172' post='65348']
FWIW, this is as much directed as a suggestion to Agile as it is to others in this thread as a means of solving the problem in a more creative way. For all I know, they're already working on it, but again I have absolutely zero inside information on this. I just think it's a good idea.
[/quote]
Honestly, that sounds like a damn mess of a sync.
We are here to voice our opinion as customers and try to get back the functionality Agile removed (even though they seem totally deaf...)Flag 0 -
[quote name='wifisyncer' timestamp='1355524880' post='65350']Honestly, that sounds like a damn mess of a sync.[/quote]
Actually, it really wouldn't be at all. It's more complicated to explain than it would be in practice.
Realistically, it would be pretty transparent if implemented properly: 1Password would simply sync in the background with the local iTunes File Sharing copies of your database, which would be exchanged with the copies on your device whenever you synced with iTunes. The end result to the user would be much simpler than the current Wi-Fi sync, since the data would come from iTunes whenever you synced regardless of whether 1Password was running or not.
In fact, this is essentially how the new iCloud syncing already works on the iOS side. 1Password doesn't talk directly to iCloud at all -- iOS handles copying the files up and down between Apple's servers and a local directory on your device, even when 1Password isn't running. When you run 1Password for iOS, it syncs with the [i]local[/i] copy of your iCloud data, updating both its own database and the synced copy in the "iCloud" folder. iOS then takes care of copying this back up to Apple's servers. The fact that all of this works as transparently as it does is actually impressive and a huge credit to 1Password's developers. As long as 1Password on Mac/Windows are allowed talk to the data files in iTunes (which is sadly a huge "if" unfortunately due to the way that Apple rolls with sandboxes and all), I don't see any reason why the exact same principle couldn't be applied for iTunes File Sync.
The end result would be that as long as you're syncing your device semi-regularly with iTunes, everything would "just work" quite smoothly.
Again, however, it's a big "if" as to whether Apple would allow Agile to do this. Further, I may think it's a great idea, but I'm an outsider looking in who has no idea of the other challenges related to implementing such a solution. If possible, however, it would really be a very elegant solution and I really believe it would make all of the Wi-Fi sync users quite happy. About the only people who might still be upset are those who don't use iTunes to sync their devices at all.Flag 0 -
I never had any problems with WiFi syncing with iPassword 3 and IOS. I don't have any strong desire to use iCloud or Dropbox.
I'm not sure what to do now... Stick with iPassword 3 and use Wifi sync or upgrade to version 4 while the 1Password for IOS price is still cheap.Flag 0 -
[quote name='macman' timestamp='1355542325' post='65389']
I never had any problems with WiFi syncing with iPassword 3 and IOS. I don't have any strong desire to use iCloud or Dropbox.
I'm not sure what to do now... Stick with iPassword 3 and use Wifi sync or upgrade to version 4 while the 1Password for IOS price is still cheap.
[/quote]
Buy version 4 and setup a DropBox account already.
Wi-Fi syncing is for losers stuck in 2005. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />Flag 0
