This is a staging forum for AgileBits, not an official support forum. Visit http://discussions.agilebits.com instead.
1Password ONLY from App Store?
Comments
-
[quote name='jpgoldberg' timestamp='1315849051' post='48240']For the rest of you, while I can make no promises about what will be available when and for what price, given everything that I know at this time, I very sincerely believe that making a purchase now through the MAS will be your best deal.[/quote]
You guys really take your users seriously, I give you that! I'm glad to see that.. Thanks again to you and bwoodruff and everyone else for explaining your decisions, and more importantly, for finally acknowledging the dilemma of most users: update blindly now or pay in full later.
I for one decided, because of your answers, to trust you and buy again in the MAS. Keep up the good work! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
PS: Oh and could you maybe (I'm repeating myself) reconsider a sale, or lower price of your iOS apps? Those have a quite steep price tag, I know you have to do the syncing, but considering $2.99 to $4.99 for good (even universal) PIN/password/wallet apps, I couldn't decide to buy your iOS apps yet. :/
[quote name='jpgoldberg' timestamp='1315849051' post='48240']
Cheers,[/quote]
CheersFlag 0 -
[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315603063' post='46806']
There really isn't much different about 3.9 other than we've gotten it ready for the MAS. The thing about purchasing 1Password there is that it will include a free upgrade to version 4, which normally would have been a paid upgrade. So, if you want to, you can think about it as if you are getting 3.9 for free and 4.0 for 60% off.
If you have a minute I'd be very interested in hearing what you know about Apple's business options, as we aren't really aware of a way to help business customers transition to the MAS at the moment.
[/quote]
Yes... I understand the whole v4 "for free" thing. I'm sorry, but it doesn't feel very free after purchasing 1pass 7 mos ago, and being asked to pay again. Seems like it wouldn't be too terribly hard to release a non-MAS v4 for current users, then draw the line at a future release.
Re: Apple business stuff. As a corporate buyer, we have our own unique Apple Store with links to buy volume licenses of Apple software. This basically entails getting a redemption code to be used with the MAS, the grabbing the installer for deployment. You can read up a bit on that [url="http://www.apple.com/mac/volume-licensing/"]here[/url]. But I believe that's Apple software only.
I think for 3rd party devs, there's the [url="http://www.apple.com/business/vpp/"]Volume Purchasing Program[/url], but that seems to only be for iOS apps currently. One could see that this will come to the MAS eventually. Not much help for the current problems though unfortunately.Flag 0 -
[quote name='chrisrosa' timestamp='1315855757' post='48289']
Yes... I understand the whole v4 "for free" thing. I'm sorry, but it doesn't feel very free after purchasing 1pass 7 mos ago, and being asked to pay again. Seems like it wouldn't be too terribly hard to release a non-MAS v4 for current users, then draw the line at a future release.
Re: Apple business stuff. As a corporate buyer, we have our own unique Apple Store with links to buy volume licenses of Apple software. This basically entails getting a redemption code to be used with the MAS, the grabbing the installer for deployment. You can read up a bit on that [url="http://www.apple.com/mac/volume-licensing/"]here[/url]. But I believe that's Apple software only.
I think for 3rd party devs, there's the [url="http://www.apple.com/business/vpp/"]Volume Purchasing Program[/url], but that seems to only be for iOS apps currently. One could see that this will come to the MAS eventually. Not much help for the current problems though unfortunately.
[/quote]
Thanks Chris.
v4 would have been a paid upgrade regardless of MAS.
I appreciate the links. We've updated our FAQ with information on business purchases.Flag 0 -
In general, a move to offer an application exclusively through the Mac App Store is designed to benefit the developer more than an existing user base. They can migrate away from the expense of selling boxed versions though distributors, gain quick access to a very large potential customer base, and grow the company efficiently. When the transition also requires a significant rewrite of the code, existing users are at risk. The application itself benefits if it did not previously adhere to Apple endorsed programing guidelines. I will bite the bullet and buy the MAS version, but I will not use it until the forum postings detailing corrupted Dropbox repositories and lost passwords diminish. I would also suggest that you keep the the pricing at $19.95 even after the version upgrade. Degraded tech support (via forums - will they be responded to in a timely manner) and forked versions generally do not deserve a $39.95 price tag.Flag 0
-
[quote name='makeintosh' timestamp='1315872888' post='48375']
Appreciate that you haven't closed the door on a non-MAS route. Having read through many posts now in this and other threads, your customers have stated many legitimate reasons for keeping the non-MAS path. For me personally, the most important ones are your ability to distribute releases more rapidly, and (for whatever reason) the broader functionality of 3.8.5 over 3.9. For the first time, I'm envious of Windows users - they will continue to see the benefits of direct distribution, whereas you will have bound your Mac customers to MAS.
[/quote]
Not all - only Lion users.Flag 0 -
[quote name='Deb Too' timestamp='1315882313' post='48440']
So, Lion users, only, can purchase for $20.
Others have to pay $40, and cannot purchase through MAS.
Rip off.
[/quote]
You can purchase you just need to do so from a Lion based Mac and through the Mac App Store. This way it
locks in the $20 Mac App Store version and you take your time upgrading to Lion. Once an app is linked to your
Apple ID in the Mac App Store it's there for good.Flag 0 -
[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1315884499' post='48458']
You can purchase you just need to do so from a Lion based Mac and through the Mac App Store. This way it
locks in the $20 Mac App Store version and you take your time upgrading to Lion. Once an app is linked to your
Apple ID in the Mac App Store it's there for good.
[/quote]
Correct.
Some of us aren't as sold on Lion as we are on Snow Leopard and have no plans to 'up'grade to Lion.
So, we get to pay $40 for 1Pass just because we're not into Lion.
Seems like the non-Lion crowd it being penalized, doesn't it.Flag 0 -
[quote name='Deb Too' timestamp='1315885163' post='48461']
Correct.
Some of us aren't as sold on Lion as we are on Snow Leopard and have no plans to 'up'grade to Lion.
So, we get to pay $40 for 1Pass just because we're not into Lion.
Seems like the non-Lion crowd it being penalized, doesn't it.
[/quote]
There is no cost to stay on Snow Leopard and 1Password 3.8.x. 1Password 3.9+ is Lion only. We do still have updates planned for 3.8.x. Sorry for any confusion.Flag 0 -
[quote name='Mangoes' timestamp='1315894546' post='48490']
It's more expensive on Snow Leopard. Why are SL users being penalised ?
Not to offer future updates so soon after Lion was released is not good. While Lion users get to enjoy version 4 and the benefits it will bring SL users miss out.
[/quote]
4.0 isn't du for a while so you have some time before you need to make a decision. Until then Lion will improve and mature and will still only be a
$29.99 option for most peopleFlag 0 -
I thought: Okay, you will update to 4.0 anyway, so give the MAS version a chance.
- Parts of the program aren't translated anymore
- The Chrome extension is broken. I regularly find myself entering my 1P password into the browser's address bar, since there is no focus on the password field anymore. I need to go there with the cursor. Then I have to navigate with the cursor to find the right entry.
- When being on my webhosters frontend, no 1P entry is displayed anymore. I have to search for it and then it opens a new tab and then I have to press the login button.
(- Since my purchase: No update. Strange for someone who has always been on your beta-channel)
Guys, what happened to you? I used 1P for years without even looking, now parts of the comfort are simply gone.
PS: You won't hear anything like that from your new customers. They don't know how it could be (and how it was).Flag 0 -
[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315845361' post='48210']
All I can promise at this point is 24 hour notification via Twitter. As I've mentioned above, we tend to under promise and over deliver, but 24 hours is the best I'll be able to promise at this point. I imagine as soon as it hits Twitter, someone (either one of us or one of you) will post it here. That is purely speculation though.
[/quote]
I'm disappointed that you can promise only a 24 hour notification and that too only via Twitter (and not even on the Agile Bits blog). Not sure if you intended it or not, but your mention of your tendency toward under promising and over delivering in the same context actually sets an expectation that the notification will definitely be much, much longer than 24 hours. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />
I hope the notification will be long enough (at least a few days). If Agile Bits cannot deliver on that front and have this only for 24 hours, I can't think of one good reason why it should be so for a company that has demonstrated that it cares. I'm hoping for the best for customers and Agile Bits and wouldn't want this to be an additional pain point along with the MAS only decision.Flag 0 -
Related to the "end of the promo date" question, I would like it if Agile Bits communicates firmly, one way or the other, about the MAS exclusiveness before the promo priced sale on MAS ends.Flag 0
-
There is simply no reason for them to go to MAS unless Apple made them with $$$$$$$.
This once excellent software is no longer.
1Paswword 3.9 from the MAS is a big headache many issues, features removed and the extensions firefox and Chrome are very frustrating to use.
They expect us to pay $20 for an update they don't even know whats going to bring. How do we know the problems will be fixed?
After recommending this to a friend just earlier today i can safely say never again. It's been nothing but a headache to use.Flag 0 -
I love 1Password so much I bought the Mac + Windows Family Bundle ($99). Agile seem to be treating folk with one license right, but it would be sensible to head off questions by doing something for dual platform family bundle users.
I think I could live with buying a MAS license for each of our family Macs (we each have our own Apple ID) if I could trade in my big bundle for an upgrade to a 4.0 Windows Family Bundle. What do you think guys?Flag 0 -
[quote name='pof' timestamp='1315904544' post='48523'] I thought: Okay, you will update to 4.0 anyway, so give the MAS version a chance. - Parts of the program aren't translated anymore - The Chrome extension is broken. I regularly find myself entering my 1P password into the browser's address bar, since there is no focus on the password field anymore. I need to go there with the cursor. Then I have to navigate with the cursor to find the right entry. - When being on my webhosters frontend, no 1P entry is displayed anymore. I have to search for it and then it opens a new tab and then I have to press the login button. (- Since my purchase: No update. Strange for someone who has always been on your beta-channel) Guys, what happened to you? I used 1P for years without even looking, now parts of the comfort are simply gone. PS: You won't hear anything like that from your new customers. They don't know how it could be (and how it was).[/quote]
pof have you tried the beta of the Chrome extension? I don't use Chrome but I read in another thread the the current stable version has issues but the beta version clears up some of the problem. Give it a try if you haven't already and see if it clears up some of your issues.
[quote name='Mangoes' timestamp='1315928005' post='48603']There is simply no reason for them to go to MAS unless Apple made them with $$$$$$$. This once excellent software is no longer. 1Paswword 3.9 from the MAS is a big headache many issues, features removed and the extensions firefox and Chrome are very frustrating to use. They expect us to pay $20 for an update they don't even know whats going to bring. How do we know the problems will be fixed? After recommending this to a friend just earlier today i can safely say never again. It's been nothing but a headache to use.[/quote]
Mangoes I think the reasons for going to MAS have been articulated here. It should allow Agile to offload the task of handling the serial numbers, payment gateways and other code and focus strictly on making great software. It makes total sense because the time they save by letting the MAS store sell the app gets put back into the applications and we get more stable applications. As far as removed features the MAS limits some of your more power users in the flexible way they can use the program but I think the average user may not notice much change at all.Flag 0 -
[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1315932960' post='48627']
[Moving to the MAS] should allow Agile to offload the task of handling the serial numbers, payment gateways and other code and focus strictly on making great software. It makes total sense because the time they save by letting the MAS store sell the app gets put back into the applications and we get more stable applications.[/quote]
Thanks for pointing this out. As I look back at the all security related change over the past months, almost all of them have to do with managing downloads and updates to ensure that people don't get tricked into running malicious version of 1Password. (We have no reason to suspect that such things exist, but we want to prevent that line of attack before anyone tries it.) As we've been dealing with things like this, we've been looking forward to having the MAS take care of all of that.
Simplifying our own online sales process really is a big temptation. We want to be the the business of writing and supporting great software. Managing our own store is a distraction. We still need to keep things around for Windows and Snow Leopard users, but pushing things to the MAS really does help.
We do lose a lot of control and flexibility with our choice. We know this. For example, we can't offer special discounts to groups of people through the MAS. We can't offer our Mac/Windows bundle. We can't really get people to sign up for our Newsletter when they purchase through the MAS. We get no individualized customer information.
Those are real costs and things we certainly took into consideration. But they also indicate one of the things we (and you) gain through our move the MAS: Simplicity. Instead of a confusing bunch of price and update schemes, there is the simple same for everybody price through the MAS. While we still have to keep our existing customer data secure, we will be getting less data to be responsible for.
[quote]As far as removed features the MAS limits some of your more power users in the flexible way they can use the program but I think the average user may not notice much change at all.
[/quote]
We love our power users. After all, except for the founders, pretty much everyone who works here was a power user before joining the team. If we had a proper history including our old forums and a decent way to search you would see all of the power features I lobbied for in my early days. But I have become a great fan of simplicity.
Most of our power users had their own, often home grown, solutions to password management before discovering 1Password. (I know I did.) And it is great to know that we have a product that earns the respect of those people who were already aware of the need for such a system. And I love talking to power users about how they can get the most out of 1Password and about aspects of the internal design. But if we are going to make the online world a safer place for everyone, we really do need to bring good, convenient, and secure password management to the MASses.
You may want to read one of my recent blog posts on [url="http://blog.agilebits.com/2011/08/convenience-is-security/"]the role of simplicity and usability[/url] in security products.
But even with that said, I'm not sure what power features of the MAS version people are missing. Here is what comes to mind.
[list=1]
[*]No more Update configuration options
[*]Location of data base and backups is no longer selectable
[*]Help > Troubleshooting options no longer needed (with diagnostics report moved to the extensions)
[/list]
So for differences between 3.8 and 3.9, I'd say that only number 2 above is a power feature that someone could really miss. Yet this whole thing is much simpler for the user. And while #2 is a consequence of MAS sandboxing, it also makes support easier if we know where things are. Our docs no longer have to say, "well the default location is here, but if you don't find it there look in your preference settings ..." Documentation like that makes things that much harder for ordinary users. The fewer special cases we need to document, the more straight forward things can be.
Now there are bigger difference in the redesign of our extensions. And some of that redesign was motivated by preparing things for the MAS, but really that only affected timing. We've known for a year that the days of Scripting Additions was numbered (Apple said as much at the 2010 Developers Conference). Apple had completely removed it from some of the developer previews of Lion, only to restore it at the last minute. So we made the decision fairly early to move away from using Scripting Additions as our browser integration mechanism. If we hadn't been preparing for the MAS, then maybe, just maybe, the transition would have been a few months later than it turned out to be, but the abandonment of the old style of browser integration was already in the cards.
I should be writing up some knowledge base articles on how the new system works, describing what goes on under the hood. I'll get back to more of that in a bit, but you should see why I consider these redesign a good thing with respect to security, as well as usability.
Cheers,
-jFlag 0 -
[quote name='jpgoldberg' timestamp='1315946287' post='48690']
Thanks for pointing this out. As I look back at the all security related change over the past months, almost all of them have to do with managing downloads and updates to ensure that people don't get tricked into running malicious version of 1Password. (We have no reason to suspect that such things exist, but we want to prevent that line of attack before anyone tries it.) As we've been dealing with things like this, we've been looking forward to having the MAS take care of all of that.
Simplifying our own online sales process really is a big temptation. We want to be the the business of writing and supporting great software. Managing our own store is a distraction. We still need to keep things around for Windows and Snow Leopard users, but pushing things to the MAS really does help.
We do lose a lot of control and flexibility with our choice. We know this. For example, we can't offer special discounts to groups of people through the MAS. We can't offer our Mac/Windows bundle. We can't really get people to sign up for our Newsletter when they purchase through the MAS. We get no individualized customer information.
Those are real costs and things we certainly took into consideration. But they also indicate one of the things we (and you) gain through our move the MAS: Simplicity. Instead of a confusing bunch of price and update schemes, there is the simple same for everybody price through the MAS. While we still have to keep our existing customer data secure, we will be getting less data to be responsible for.
We love our power users. After all, except for the founders, pretty much everyone who works here was a power user before joining the team. If we had a proper history including our old forums and a decent way to search you would see all of the power features I lobbied for in my early days. But I have become a great fan of simplicity.
Most of our power users had their own, often home grown, solutions to password management before discovering 1Password. (I know I did.) And it is great to know that we have a product that earns the respect of those people who were already aware of the need for such a system. And I love talking to power users about how they can get the most out of 1Password and about aspects of the internal design. But if we are going to make the online world a safer place for everyone, we really do need to bring good, convenient, and secure password management to the MASses.
You may want to read one of my recent blog posts on [url="http://blog.agilebits.com/2011/08/convenience-is-security/"]the role of simplicity and usability[/url] in security products.
But even with that said, I'm not sure what power features of the MAS version people are missing. Here is what comes to mind.
[list=1]
[*]No more Update configuration options
[*]Location of data base and backups is no longer selectable
[*]Help > Troubleshooting options no longer needed (with diagnostics report moved to the extensions)
[/list]
So for differences between 3.8 and 3.9, I'd say that only number 2 above is a power feature that someone could really miss. Yet this whole thing is much simpler for the user. And while #2 is a consequence of MAS sandboxing, it also makes support easier if we know where things are. Our docs no longer have to say, "well the default location is here, but if you don't find it there look in your preference settings ..." Documentation like that makes things that much harder for ordinary users. The fewer special cases we need to document, the more straight forward things can be.
Now there are bigger difference in the redesign of our extensions. And some of that redesign was motivated by preparing things for the MAS, but really that only affected timing. We've known for a year that the days of Scripting Additions was numbered (Apple said as much at the 2010 Developers Conference). Apple had completely removed it from some of the developer previews of Lion, only to restore it at the last minute. So we made the decision fairly early to move away from using Scripting Additions as our browser integration mechanism. If we hadn't been preparing for the MAS, then maybe, just maybe, the transition would have been a few months later than it turned out to be, but the abandonment of the old style of browser integration was already in the cards.
I should be writing up some knowledge base articles on how the new system works, describing what goes on under the hood. I'll get back to more of that in a bit, but you should see why I consider these redesign a good thing with respect to security, as well as usability.
Cheers,
-j
[/quote]
Some good stuff.
A 1 button remote control is the simplest device you can practically use. After all, there is only 1 button.
Add a 2nd button and you've "doubled" the functionality of the device. However, you've also doubled the complexity.
My point is that there is a balance that has to be met at some point. Right now, the balance seems to be shifting a bit with 1Password but I suspect it will balance back out in the near term.Flag 0 -
Hy,
sorry, but I have no time to read the whole thread - too long. So maybe my question is answered already, but here is it:
I use SL still, and 1Pwd 3.8. And I am not planning to switch to Lion. So, how do I get the option for an upgrade if I want to switch after the "cheaper upgrade period" is over (what will happen as announced by Agile, getting 3.9 in AppStore cheaper with an incl. update for 4.0).
Takk fyrir,
Claus
In Iceland: http://www.claus-in-iceland.comFlag 0 -
[quote name='jpgoldberg' timestamp='1315946287' post='48690'][list=1]
[*]No more Update configuration options
[*]Location of data base and backups is no longer selectable
[*]Help > Troubleshooting options no longer needed (with diagnostics report moved to the extensions)
[/list]
[/quote]
I'm sorry but this is extremely disingenuous and you know it. Your OWN FAQ lists plenty more problems and feature removals. What about saving your Master Password to the keychain & the Logins Bookmarklet? I've switched to the MAS version and I'm regretting it because of the loss of those two features.
"No more Update configuration options"? Way to gloss over the axing of the Beta program, something I personally find crucial to the success of 1Password. I'm constantly refreshing the App Store app checking for a new version to fix some of the bugs and regressions in 3.9. Nothing. If this was the regular channel, we would already have an update being tested in the beta channel. Now we ALL get to be beta testers whether we like it or not. This is demonstrated so perfectly by the users having massive corruption issues with the MAS version.
[quote name='jpgoldberg' timestamp='1315946287' post='48690']
Help > Troubleshooting options no longer needed (with diagnostics report moved to the extensions)
[/quote]
You've got to be kidding me. I have to reset or lock & unlock the new 1Password Helper every day, and now I have to do it through Activity Monitor thanks to this feature removal.Flag 0 -
Something has drastically changed at this company.
Someone was hired or something was done to totally abandon the base users.
First you throw us a beta product with constant updates and now App Store only and we must buy it?
How in the hell are you going to update this beta program through the App Store? You can't push 10 updates a day
through the App store.
This once great company is now just showering unpleasant rain on it's user base.
Does anyone know of a competing product that I can purchase that will not be going App Store?
We are being billed for a phone app, that never gets updated, and now an App Store purchase only for the promise of version 4 which I assume
will be the old version that once worked great and we all loved but will probably fall short of even that.
With these 2 recent moves, I have lost all hope.
Who is driving this train off the cliff at full speed?Flag 0 -
[quote name='claus' timestamp='1315951286' post='48716']
I use SL still, and 1Pwd 3.8. And I am not planning to switch to Lion. So, how do I get the option for an upgrade if I want to switch after the "cheaper upgrade period" is over (what will happen as announced by Agile, getting 3.9 in AppStore cheaper with an incl. update for 4.0).
[/quote]
I've asked a similar question. If you are, like me, not going to switch to Lion, you'll be on 3.8.x forever. 3.9 and 4.0 will require Lion. Agilebits said 3.8.x will be actively supported. The question is for how long.Flag 0 -
[quote name='frame' timestamp='1315959662' post='48745']
I've asked a similar question. If you are, like me, not going to switch to Lion, you'll be on 3.8.x forever. 3.9 and 4.0 will require Lion. Agilebits said 3.8.x will be actively supported.[color=#0000ff][i] The question is for how long.[/i][/color]
[/quote]
We've been told numerous times that Agile is still supporting folks all the way back to [b]Tiger: [/b] I'm not askin' the how long question, knowing this. [color=#ff0000] Admins[/color]. have repeatedly said this, and as far as I can see, there is no reason at all to be distrustful. AgileBits is a quality product!
I'm not updating to Lion in the foreseeable future [i]( holdin' on to [u]Eudora Classic[/u] with a death grip...)[/i] and I have 1P 3.8.5Flag 0
This discussion has been closed.