1Password ONLY from App Store?

jay_gunn

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1316027682' post='48984']

$19.99 pricing will end tomorrow, according to our Twitter feed: [url="http://twitter.com/#!/1Password/status/114007386548748289"]3 hours ago[/url]

[/quote]



That... was fast. I at least expected it would last until 4.0 was [i]announced[/i]. Not that I don't expect it will go back on sale when 4.0 is [i]released[/i].



So I guess I'll just keep sitting here hoping you guys come to your senses and release a non-MAS version.

CurbedEnthusiasm

Adding my voice to this conversation. I don't like the direction Agile have taken and am disappointed. Also, what happened to the great customer listening? I have flagged Agile and 1Password and am going to see what happens. Might need to migrate away from you guys.

Ben

[quote name='claus' timestamp='1316045040' post='49076']

again: does it mean i have no option to get an update for v 4 after the day tomorrow (for the price of $19.99)? or: i have to pay the full price for v4 from the day after tomorrow.

as i wrote: i want to wait with getting lion a few weeks/months. but you (or one of you staff) tell us more or less "dot worry with lion" - but i have to WORK with my mac, and at the moment a not well running system would be a not good idea (i also use adobe cs3) ...

[/quote]



For obvious reasons I can't comment on future sales, but I can say that the $19.99 price is a steal.

Ben

[quote name='CurbedEnthusiasm' timestamp='1316054019' post='49097']

Adding my voice to this conversation. I don't like the direction Agile have taken and am disappointed. Also, what happened to the great customer listening? I have flagged Agile and 1Password and am going to see what happens. Might need to migrate away from you guys.

[/quote]



I'm sorry to hear you are disappointed. We feel we are making the best choice for all involved.

gmill

I'll give agile this free advise. Make your app store version for dummies, the masses. Make it so simple to use, that my parents can use it. It does not need many features, and just needs to work. Strip down the feature set for the app store and dumb it down so anyone can use it. Isn't that the point of the app store, get more sales. Problem is you are leaving behind all of the above dumb users with this app store direction. You need a 1Password Pro for us and the DUMBED down 1Password for the app store and mass users. Simple strategy and one that would work for you and us.



Sometimes you need to look from outside your company to solve your own problems that are obvious to all of your long time users that are posting here negatively. 1Password Pro, we continue beta testing your product and you sell the dumbed down 1Password for the masses in the app store. Then you get the best of both worlds and a bridge for the app store users to upgrade to Pro.



I hope one of you here has the balls to bring this up in your next meeting and ask, you know that pissed off user GMILL, he got me thinking... But of course, Agile has already thought through everything and it's final, price is gone tomorrow, no upgrade price for long time users. Someone please save your company from yourselves.

Carl

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1316054292' post='49098']



For obvious reasons I can't comment on future sales, but I can say that the $19.99 price is a steal.

[/quote]





For a first time purchaser, yes.

idislikeforums

I'd like to add my vote [b]against[/b] App Store only distribution. I actually bought 1Password 3.9 at the Mac App Store because it seems that you've made a decision and nothing we - your customers - can say that might change that.



I only used the MAS to purchase Lion, and that's it prior to that. The MAS frightens me. I use an iPhone and tolerate its restrictions because on the Mac I don't have to ask for Apple's permission to install software. I am genuinely scared of the possibility that someday in the not too distant future the MAS might become the only way to install software on your Mac, if you don't jailbreak it.



Like I said I seriously doubt you'll change your minds and won't make 1Password 4.0 exclusive to the App Store, but if you do, I will gladly pay for the upgrade again.

hmurchison

[quote name='idislikeforums' timestamp='1316062645' post='49137']

I'd like to add my vote [b]against[/b] App Store only distribution. I actually bought 1Password 3.9 at the Mac App Store because it seems that you've made a decision and nothing we - your customers - can say that might change that.



I only used the MAS to purchase Lion, and that's it prior to that. The MAS frightens me. I use an iPhone and tolerate its restrictions because on the Mac I don't have to ask for Apple's permission to install software. I am genuinely scared of the possibility that someday in the not too distant future the MAS might become the only way to install software on your Mac, if you don't jailbreak it.



Like I said I seriously doubt you'll change your minds and won't make 1Password 4.0 exclusive to the App Store, but if you do, I will gladly pay for the upgrade again.

[/quote]





It's highly unlikely that the Mac will ever reach a point where the only way to buy apps is through the Mac App Store. And when I say unlikely I mean it as in ...you are more likely to stumble upon a pot of gold underneath a Unicorn and rainbow.



There are many apps that just don't lend themselves to MAS support. Chiefly apps that use Macros to control other apps (a la Quickeys) and other apps that can potentially breach a system because of too much control.



We may never see apps like Adobe's Creative Suite on the MAS or the Microsoft Office Suite...there will be a market for apps that simply cannot justify the modifications that are necessary to sandbox their apps for the MAS.



Have little fear...the Mac App Store isn't some plot to wrest the final bit of control from every software vendor. It's a service that greatly simplifies the purchasing and downloading/installation of Mac software.



Steve Jobs himself said the plan is for it to be auxiliary to todays method of software delivery.

DavidLightfoot

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1316027682' post='48984']

$19.99 pricing will end tomorrow, according to our Twitter feed: [url="http://twitter.com/#!/1Password/status/114007386548748289"]3 hours ago[/url]

[/quote]

So those of us who are waiting for Lion's bugs to be ironed out and other software to become compatible before "upgrading" from SL are locked out of the discount price. I for one am very unhappy with what you are doing Agilebits. Please bring back a non-MAS version as well as the MAS version.

DavidLightfoot

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1316054384' post='49100']



I'm sorry to hear you are disappointed. We feel we are making the best choice for all involved.

[/quote]



This is a pretty arrogant statement. From the number of pages and sentiment expressed in this thread it is quite plainly NOT "the best choice for ALL involved". It may be the best choice for you bwoodruff but not for the vast majority of posters here. I can't believe you are not listening to all these people. Its quite amazing. Anyway I too am now looking for a replacement for 1Password (so its up and running before the software breaks on SL, never to be updated and fixed. It's a huge pity as its a great product that I too have recommended to many family and friends (not any longer).

essiecab

I used to love 1Password, but it seems to have gone downhill lately, IMO. It doesn't autosave anymore, the saved logins don't appear on the popup menu (or it just says "login" with nothing else there), etc. I'm afraid these things won't get fixed. And to top it off you're forcing us to use the MAS. I'm sorry but I don't like that store at all. I bought one app from there, didn't like it, and had a big hassle trying to return it. I really don't like the way Apple is trying to force everyone into this MAS and don't want to use it.



I'm avoiding getting Lion for as long as I can because of that and other issues surrounding Lion, and because Agilebits just doesn't seem to care anymore, will be looking around for something else. I'm really disturbed by all of this because 1Password was one of my favorite applications. Now I wouldn't recommend it.

kallemia

[quote name='DavidLightfoot' timestamp='1316083292' post='49176']

Anyway I too am now looking for a replacement for 1Password (so its up and running before the software breaks on SL, never to be updated and fixed.

[/quote]





But they have already stated many times, that they intend to maintain 3.8.x vis stability and security updates. AgileBits continue to support software that runs on even older versions of the Mac OS. Their track record is impeccable in this regard. I am running 3.8.x and 3.9 on different machines and have not had any problems, other than the bugs that AgileBits have reported will be fixed in the next upgrade.



Of course, it's always a good idea to evaluate your options.



Kalle

hmurchison

[quote name='DavidLightfoot' timestamp='1316082686' post='49175']

So those of us who are waiting for Lion's bugs to be ironed out and other software to become compatible before "upgrading" from SL are locked out of the discount price. I for one am very unhappy with what you are doing Agilebits. Please bring back a non-MAS version as well as the MAS version.

[/quote]



David all you need to do is login to the Mac App Store on any computer running Lion. You will be asked to verify your credit card info but once that's done you can purchase 1Password and it will be linked to your Apple ID so that if/when you upgrade to Lion you have it ready. Plus you're getting version 4.0 for free so it's likely worth the effort.



[quote name='essiecab' timestamp='1316088542' post='49202']

I used to love 1Password, but it seems to have gone downhill lately, IMO. It doesn't autosave anymore, the saved logins don't appear on the popup menu (or it just says "login" with nothing else there), etc. I'm afraid these things won't get fixed. And to top it off you're forcing us to use the MAS. I'm sorry but I don't like that store at all. I bought one app from there, didn't like it, and had a big hassle trying to return it. I really don't like the way Apple is trying to force everyone into this MAS and don't want to use it.



I'm avoiding getting Lion for as long as I can because of that and other issues surrounding Lion, and because Agilebits just doesn't seem to care anymore, will be looking around for something else. I'm really disturbed by all of this because 1Password was one of my favorite applications. Now I wouldn't recommend it.

[/quote]



Trying to return "any" software is a big hassle. It always has been so be thankful that you were able to do so in the first place. There's no way to remove software from a end users computer so most software has a "no return" policy to prevent people from buying software installing it and returning it.



Apple isn't trying to force anyone into the MAS. They have decided to use it for most of their applications but developers are free to use whatever current method they want in addition to the MAS. Some developers choose to go MAS only because if offloads the task of running their own store and allows them to focus on creating their software and fixing issues like the ones you mention.



If you're afraid that 1PW won't gain back features then the last thing you really want is for Agile to use more man hours on maintaining their store. The sooner they can focus more attention on just their software the sooner we get the stability and feature set we all want. The Mac App Store is a good thing for almost all but some power users that have leveraged some features that Sandboxing doesn't allow.

lhotka

[quote name='kallemia' timestamp='1316098612' post='49266']





But they have already stated many times, that they intend to maintain 3.8.x vis stability and security updates. AgileBits continue to support software that runs on even older versions of the Mac OS. Their track record is impeccable in this regard. I am running 3.8.x and 3.9 on different machines and have not had any problems, other than the bugs that AgileBits have reported will be fixed in the next upgrade.



Of course, it's always a good idea to evaluate your options.



Kalle

[/quote]



Until they update the iOS version to require the new desktop version, at which point you're out of luck.

lhotka

[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1316102642' post='49295']



If you're afraid that 1PW won't gain back features then the last thing you really want is for Agile to use more man hours on maintaining their store.

[/quote]



But they still have to maintain the store for the windows version, so that doesn't hold water.

hmurchison

[quote name='lhotka' timestamp='1316104451' post='49310']



But they still have to maintain the store for the windows version, so that doesn't hold water.

[/quote]



Doesn't hold water for now but...



http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow/story/286738/windows-8-what-we-know-so-far/5



Windows 8 should have an app store meaning Agile and other companies will be able to target the two largest commercial

OS app stores. I'm sure Agile can see the forest through the trees here.

lhotka

True, but Win 8 is widely expected to have very slow adoption - forcing 1P to Win8 only is far far worse than forcing Lion. Heck, roughly half of all machines are still on XP.

kallemia

[quote name='lhotka' timestamp='1316104406' post='49309']



Until they update the iOS version to require the new desktop version, at which point you're out of luck.

[/quote]



I guess I missed where they stated that they would REQUIRE the new desktop version in the iOS apps. Could you point that out? If not, then it's just a guess, right? From what I can tell, the iOS versions interact only with the data source for the keychain file. I guess there is the possibility that wifi sync would be affected by any new desktop versions, but AgileBits has shown by its actions that it supports older versions of their software quite generously. Besides, it's not a problem, until it's a problem.

Paranoid

Since 1Password decided to move MAS only, this is by far the most worst customer experience I ever had with any product that I purchased in my life.



I hope I can use my non-MAS purchased Desktop version of 1Password as well as the iPhone and iPad version still for a while before I must consider alternatives.

claus

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1316054292' post='49098']



For obvious reasons I can't comment on future sales, but I can say that the $19.99 price is a steal.

[/quote]

Sorry, but I don't understand the meaning of " the $19.99 price is a steal" - my english is not that good.



Again: How do I get an update to v4 from my existing 3.x licenses (sometime later, when I decided to install Lion)?

Normally, a software company offers an option to get the newest version for a price which i lower than the price for a full version - for a longer period. I think you did the same for 2.x users when 3 was released.

takk

claus

hmurchison

[quote name='Paranoid' timestamp='1316117438' post='49363']

Since 1Password decided to move MAS only, this is by far the most worst customer experience I ever had with any product that I purchased in my life.



I hope I can use my non-MAS purchased Desktop version of 1Password as well as the iPhone and iPad version still for a while before I must consider alternatives.

[/quote]



I don't see why you won't be able to. It's not like the Agile Keychain has changed. According to some posts from Agile staff it appears they've created a new architecture which is more impervious to browser changes. I'm willing to go through a little rocky sea to land safe afterwards.



Most of us know the alternatives and that's why we use 1PW (wink)

mixture

What the heck has happened here.. I was away for a week and this has happened. Nightmare of sorts.



I defended AgileBits when people complained of the buggy new browser extensions. I said that the company has been trustworthy and are one of the best developers around, so those angry people should just wait and see, sooner rather than later the extensions would be working just fine.



But now AgileBits is making the worst decision I've ever heard of, I hate Mac App Store. I have two apps bought from there and both of them are apps that are rarely updated.



I've gotten accustomed to 1PW's quick upgrade roadmap and also to Sparkle and how amazingly easy it is to update apps through Sparkle.



I'm still using Snow Leopard, so now I should either buy Lion tonight and buy 1PW if I wanted it at half price, or then upgrade to Lion when I want and pay full price for 1PW.



I think you should definitely keep the 50% off for a longer period of time, at least until 4.0 isn't so far away. I don't know.



The pricing thing is the least of my worries though. Do you guys know how slow Apple is at accepting new updates? The rapid release cycle will definitely suffer and if there are serious bugs in some release, it takes time to get it out thanks to Apple's process.



I didn't think I ever would think this way, but seriously, if there was a serious competitor to 1PW, I would change to them when it's time to upgrade my system to Lion.



Unfortunately it really seems like AgileBits is now so self-confident because they know 1PW is the only viable password manager for Macs, so they don't really care if us customers don't like the transition. It's either we follow AgileBits' decision and use 1PW, or use some crap software.



The only way for us disappointed customers is to vote with our wallets, and that is a tough thing to do when there are no good alternatives... And AgileBits knows this.



Oh dear...

hmurchison

Sparkle is good but MAS updates on Lion are a sight to behold. Primarily because Lion only downloads changed (Delta) data which means when I have an update to Bento I no longer have to download another 100MB of data I'm only going to download the changed portions which are a fraction of the total size.



You don't have to buy Lion you just need to purchase 1PW from a Lion based Mac under your Apple ID...then the discounted pricing is locked to your Apple ID yet u can still run 3.8.x and wait to until you're ready to upgrade to Lion.



I've got Snow Leopard server just waiting in my MAS for the appropriate hardware to run. I love it.



Of course Agile has an idea of how fast Apple is...some of the staff said Apple approved 1PW so quickly they where somewhat caught off guard. You cannot assume that approvals will be fast or take forever on the MAS. It all depends on how quickly they can test your application and that's a factor of how many bodies Apple has to QA test and approve and of course the application.



I'm kind of thinking that Agile is winning customers over. Search for "refunded" on this forum and see how many people just got $20 back into their accounts.

kallemia

[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1316121403' post='49386']

I'm kind of thinking that Agile is winning customers over. Search for "refunded" on this forum and see how many people just got $20 back into their accounts.

[/quote]



And it has more reviews than the iWorks apps combined, and a little over a hundred shy of the Lion review count. They've been in the top 5 of paid apps for a week now too. Hope these trends continue.

Ben

[quote name='claus' timestamp='1316117715' post='49364']

Sorry, but I don't understand the meaning of " the $19.99 price is a steal" - my english is not that good.



Again: How do I get an update to v4 from my existing 3.x licenses (sometime later, when I decided to install Lion)?

Normally, a software company offers an option to get the newest version for a price which i lower than the price for a full version - for a longer period. I think you did the same for 2.x users when 3 was released.

takk

claus

[/quote]



Hi claus,



Sorry for any confusion. I was simply saying that the sale we were having was a "really good deal" (sometimes in English we call that a "steal").



The sale was simply a price reduction as a way to transition users to the MAS as fairly as possible.



If you do not have access to a computer running Lion, it is not possible to purchase 1Password 3.9+.

Ben

[quote name='Paranoid' timestamp='1316117438' post='49363']

I hope I can use my non-MAS purchased Desktop version of 1Password as well as the iPhone and iPad version still for a while before I must consider alternatives.

[/quote]



For as long as you like. Licenses of 1Password don't expire.

Ben

[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1316121403' post='49386']

I'm kind of thinking that Agile is winning customers over. Search for "refunded" on this forum and see how many people just got $20 back into their accounts.

[/quote]



For the sake of full disclosure, we were processing full refunds in most cases, which was usually $39.99.

Ben

[quote name='mixture' timestamp='1316120169' post='49382']

Oh dear...

[/quote]



There is nothing saying we can't have other sales in the future. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



Also, we can update the extensions outside of the MAS, and that is where most fixes are currently being done.

kallemia

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1316128107' post='49428']

For the sake of full disclosure, we were processing full refunds in most cases, which was usually $39.99.

[/quote]



But hopefully, they still have $20 in their account because they used the other $19.99 to buy the MAS version... <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



Kalle

Ben

[quote name='kallemia' timestamp='1316129791' post='49436']



But hopefully, they still have $20 in their account because they used the other $19.99 to buy the MAS version... <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



Kalle

[/quote]



Ha. Of course. Good call!