1Password ONLY from App Store?

lhotka

[quote name='kallemia' timestamp='1316114904' post='49352']



I guess I missed where they stated that they would REQUIRE the new desktop version in the iOS apps. Could you point that out? If not, then it's just a guess, right? From what I can tell, the iOS versions interact only with the data source for the keychain file. I guess there is the possibility that wifi sync would be affected by any new desktop versions, but AgileBits has shown by its actions that it supports older versions of their software quite generously. Besides, it's not a problem, until it's a problem.

[/quote]



Search for an earlier posting in this thread. They specifically indicated that a future version of the iOS application will require the new desktop client.



AgileBits has shown that the abandon earlier versions of their software and require migration to new versions with little notice - especially where integrations are concerned (e.g. the browser plugins).



I'm not going to wait for another 'poof!' you're not supported, sorry, moment like I had when they dumped FF3.6 support with no warning.

lhotka

[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1316121403' post='49386']

Sparkle is good but MAS updates on Lion are a sight to behold.

[/quote]



When they work.

kallemia

[quote name='lhotka' timestamp='1316135579' post='49455']

Search for an earlier posting in this thread. They specifically indicated that a future version of the iOS application will require the new desktop client.

[/quote]



Actually, no, that's not what "they" said. It's what YOU've said, over, and over and over again. Here is what bwoodruff wrote:



"I will say that it is possible that in the future you will need a new desktop version to sync with a new mobile version. "



Possible... does not equal "future version will require"



And please explain how exactly AgileBits has "abandoned" earlier versions... it seems to me that they actually do a pretty good job of supporting user needs. They're supporting software that runs on Tiger, after all. If you mean, the most current version does not run on older versions of the Mac OS X, then I'd say that's not exactly abandonment. They are supporting 3.8.x.



Kalle

Ben

We do indeed still have 1Password 2.x available for those who are, for whatever reason, stuck on Tiger. And, we still answer their emails. It's not like we have a filter in mail that says "if version > 3.8 then send to trash." <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> True, you aren't going to be able to run 1P + Firefox 6 on Tiger, but clearly being on the latest versions of software is not your top priority in that case anyways. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

lhotka

[quote name='kallemia' timestamp='1316137765' post='49461']



Actually, no, that's not what "they" said. It's what YOU've said, over, and over and over again. Here is what bwoodruff wrote:



"I will say that it is possible that in the future you will need a new desktop version to sync with a new mobile version. "



Possible... does not equal "future version will require"



And please explain how exactly AgileBits has "abandoned" earlier versions... it seems to me that they actually do a pretty good job of supporting user needs. They're supporting software that runs on Tiger, after all. If you mean, the most current version does not run on older versions of the Mac OS X, then I'd say that's not exactly abandonment. They are supporting 3.8.x.



Kalle

[/quote]



Yep, that's exactly what he said, and that's the issue. They won't provide a policy on software support. Fine, that's a business decision, but I need my core products to be more predictable.



They abandoned Firefox 3.6 with no warning. Poof - all of a sudden, I can't use my password product any longer. No warning at all. Poof! New update is only in the MAS. Poof! You must upgrade to an unstable OS version (issue for others, not for me - I had a need to move to Lion, and am paying for it with instability). Will the next Poof! be an iOS app that requires 1P 4, or a desktop that only supports FF8? I can't take the risk of another last-minute surprise where a key piece of functional software stops without warning. The problem is that they (like Mozilla) are mixing bug fixes, security fixes, and new features into the same set of releases, so we're forced to upgrade.



To be clear: support doesn't mean answering emails. It means maintaining the code, providing bug/security fixes, compatibility updates (until the next major version of OSX), etc.

Their whole argument for this change is to reduce support and development costs. Are they really still providing security and bug fixes for version 2? If so, perhaps it makes more sense to abandon the users on a 5 year old operating system instead of the one that's still on over half the mac's out there.



My best guess is that the iOS app will be updated to require 1P 4. I also suspect that a future safari upgrade will break the current version. Do I know? Nope, because they won't provide that pesky software support policy.



Given the recent track record (big surprises, dropped functionality, very very buggy code) Agile clearly has some resource issues and growing pains going on. I sympathize - been there myself, and worked the death march more than once. But making commitments to support versions for some period of time is still something we did.



I've not decided what I'm going to do - as I indicated, I did buy (out of my own pocket, rather than the business) a discounted copy of 3.9 so that it'll bridge me until I make a decision. $20 was worth it to avoid the potential iOS issue, though it does nothing for the rapid dropping of FF support as mozilla continues their nutty release schedule.



Yes, I'm looking at an alternative that I found - and no, I have enough tact I won't post it here). I may stick with 1P, and I may not. There's two issues: 1) MAS-Only. Still haven't heard a valid argument for that (resource issues don't hold water because they are still maintaining all their own licensing code for the WIndows app). If they are planning on forcing folks into the Win8 store, to free those up well, they really are going to abandon a lot of customers - win8 adoption is predicted to be very slow. 2) massive problems with the browser plugin.



I might get past 1. I can't get past 2. #2 was driving me to consider alternatives anyway, and when #1 came along, with the attitude here, and another poof! about how the notification about it was handled, I got annoyed enough to start looking now. If 1P doesn't work (and right now it doesn't), then there's no reason to deal with all the problems with the MAS, is there?



So to Agile - the best thing you can do at the moment is to fix your existing code - particularly the browser plugin. Stop giving people functional reasons to switch.

Ben

[quote name='lhotka' timestamp='1316141409' post='49475']

So to Agile - the best thing you can do at the moment is to fix your existing code - particularly the browser plugin. Stop giving people functional reasons to switch.

[/quote]



Thanks for the feedback! We are working on doing just that.

Mangoes

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1316017817' post='48915']



Windows is unaffected.

[/quote]



The your reason for going MAS only are invalid. I don't buy it and by the looks of it many others don't either.



Now tell us the real reason you went MAS only.

Mangoes

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1316054384' post='49100']



I'm sorry to hear you are disappointed. We feel we are making the best choice for all involved.

[/quote]



How arrogant can one get.



"For all involved" Have you not read the fora ? I don't see too many happy people.

om3ga777

[quote name='Mangoes' timestamp='1316148820' post='49491']

Now tell us the real reason you went MAS only.

[/quote]



1. They don't have to bother with licensing issues (store, license codes, etc.)

2. The exposure to new possible customers in the MAS is unbelievable. Many of them have never heard of 1Password and would never have got to know it if it wasn't through the MAS.



So the ominous reasons (which were disclosed in this thread more than once) for this business decision are: Less problems and more (paying) customers.

Mangoes

Don't buy them stories. They still need to do all that for the Windows version.

bsasso

I purchased 1password August 14th. How do i get my refund in order to buy the new version in the App store?

thanks

onemorelogin

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1316027682' post='48984']

$19.99 pricing will end tomorrow, according to our Twitter feed: [url="http://twitter.com/#!/1Password/status/114007386548748289"]3 hours ago[/url]

[/quote]



So much for under promising and over delivering! It just had to happen like any other gimmicky marketing scheme we've all seen! Too bad for some users, but Agile doesn't seem to care all that much. I'll miss 1P when I upgrade to Lion (which will be a few months later), but having seen how a company can go from being great to being "just another company", I'd look for alternatives in the future.



To paraphrase one of Agile's oft-used statements on these forums, "I'm sorry to see you go, Agile." It seems you abandoned me long before the thought of abandoning you came to my mind.

Mangoes

In the Australian MAS 1password only went up $5 to $25.99



Some saving that special was hahaha....



Too expensive for an application that has been on the decline for a while now. $10 i would give them the change not at this price. There are some really good alternatives now out there.



It's disappointing, 1password was once the king. Now it's just a mess.

hmurchison

Agile



I think this thread is done. It's now degraded into a few people who wish to incessantly vent. I don't think anyone can gain any insight into how affective the MAS is going to be for Agile and customers until there is months of data to support decision or prove that MAS only isn't the solution.



At this point I'm glad that I was able to jump in on the $20 deal and I await 4.0 but for me at least things have stabilized after a rocky start.

jay_gunn

So far I've found it surprisingly easy to migrate my data out of 1Password. Passwords, serials, IDs, wallet, notes, everything. Gotta commend the Agile guys for that. I'll stick with 3.8.x until it stops working, and know that my alternative is already up to date and ready for the switch. In the meantime, I'll continue holding out hope (against odds, it would seem) that Agile will reconsider the MAS only move, and offer a non-MAS version in parallel because I really would like to continue supporting this company.

joebreeves

I bought the full application of 1Password for Windows and Mac (As well as the 1Pad/iPhone combo app) on August 28th. How do I get a refund for *just* the Mac version so I can re-buy it?

Ben

[quote name='Mangoes' timestamp='1316191822' post='49583']

In the Australian MAS 1password only went up $5 to $25.99



Some saving that special was hahaha....



[/quote]



[url="http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/8841-mas-price-just-increased-to-2495/"]MAS Price Just Increased to $24.95[/url]

Ben

[quote name='joebreeves' timestamp='1316198037' post='49640']

I bought the full application of 1Password for Windows and Mac (As well as the 1Pad/iPhone combo app) on August 28th. How do I get a refund for *just* the Mac version so I can re-buy it?

[/quote]



Refunded. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

om3ga777

[quote name='Mangoes' timestamp='1316191822' post='49583']

There are some really good alternatives now out there.

[/quote]



I considered changing too, but I found not one worthy competitor. But please PM me, maybe I missed one ...



Agile did a great job in the last two years and thanks to some very generous and user friendly business decisions in the past I didn't have to pay for the iPhone or iPad app. Although I'm no fan of the new extension, MAS-only and the way the situation is/was handled, I decided to buy the MAS version. If things really get worse I still can ditch the application - but considering Agile's past work I think they deserve my faith.



@Mangoes: Those stories are actually common sense. And please spare me the ridiculous allegation, that Apple bribed them.

Mike B

I fully expect 1P v4 will require an updated IOS app. I also now fully expect Agilebits to make it an entirely new iOS 5 1PW app to buy (1 Password Pro Plus 4 Plus or somesuch) - you know, because it's the best choice for all involved. Maybe the iOS 5 adoption rate can be the excuse there.



What I'm saying here is that I used to expect the best from Agilebits, nowadays I just expect the same sub-par development ethics as every other MAS developer. They don't have any other choice - Apple will have the control - which will surely be an excuse often heard as they wait for Apple to approve anything.

Mangoes

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1316198086' post='49641']



[url="http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/8841-mas-price-just-increased-to-2495/"]MAS Price Just Increased to $24.95[/url]

[/quote]



Thats what i was saying it went up $5 to 25.95 in Australia from $20.95. So a $5 saving is considered a special.

Ben

[quote name='Mangoes' timestamp='1316232622' post='49807']



Thats what i was saying it went up $5 to 25.95 in Australia from $20.95. So a $5 saving is considered a special.

[/quote]



The current price is still a 50% sale. The previous price was a 60% sale, as noted in the FAQ.

claus

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1316127979' post='49425']

The sale was simply a price reduction as a way to transition users to the MAS as fairly as possible.

If you do not have access to a computer running Lion, it is not possible to purchase 1Password 3.9+.

[/quote]



hmmm, thats not nice. i dont want to pay the full price in a few weeks (/months) to get the update! (i still wait for lion)

Mangoes

Existing 1password licence holders should get 1password 4 at 50% discount not matter when they choose to buy it, today, tomorrow or next year. IMO

Ben

[quote name='Mangoes' timestamp='1316269199' post='49920']

Existing 1password licence holders should get 1password 4 at 50% discount not matter when they choose to buy it, today, tomorrow or next year. IMO

[/quote]



Thanks for your input.



As you know, we have to sell the product to everyone at the same price. We don't have the ability to say "Joe Schmo bought the iPad version, so he gets 20% off, and Sally Sue already owns 1Password 3.8.x so she gets it at 50% off, and Billy Bob has helped us beta test so he gets an extra 10% off." We simply don't have the ability to do that. MAS only allows one price for everyone, and so we are having this initial sale to try and be as fair and generous as possible within those constraints.

claus

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1316269544' post='49923']

As you know, we have to sell the product to everyone at the same price. We don't have the ability to say "Joe Schmo bought the iPad version, so he gets 20% off, and Sally Sue already owns 1Password 3.8.x so she gets it at 50% off, and Billy Bob has helped us beta test so he gets an extra 10% off." We simply don't have the ability to do that. MAS only allows one price for everyone, and so we are having this initial sale to try and be as fair and generous as possible within those constraints.

[/quote]



hey, nobody is asking for this. those who dont want 10.7 now - and wait some time for upgrading - have to pay the full-version price for the update - you increased the price already?!

i know, mas does not offer a solution for this problem. but nobody said you HAVE to go this way. i hope that agile did not make a big mistake by all these changes ... i wont change to another sw or will not say "no thanks to1pwd4" when the lion runs on my mac - but the way how agil is acting .... phuuu... its a big surprise and does not fit into how i experienced agile during the last years ...

Ben

[quote name='claus' timestamp='1316281971' post='49984']

hey, nobody is asking for this. those who dont want 10.7 now - and wait some time for upgrading - have to pay the full-version price for the update - you increased the price already?!

[/quote]



To be fair -- it is still on sale, and at a 50% discount. Some people may not upgrade to Lion for 6 months or more. We simply can't afford to leave the sale going for that long. And there is no one saying that we won't have other sales in the future for those who miss out now.



[quote name='claus' timestamp='1316281971' post='49984']

i know, mas does not offer a solution for this problem. but nobody said you HAVE to go this way. i hope that agile did not make a big mistake by all these changes ... i wont change to another sw or will not say "no thanks to1pwd4" when the lion runs on my mac - but the way how agil is acting .... phuuu... its a big surprise and does not fit into how i experienced agile during the last years ...

[/quote]



I think we've outlined a number of times our reasoning for going to a MAS only model. Right now the biggest complaints I'm seeing are regarding the browser extensions. We'd like our developers to be able to focus their time on those, rather than licensing, maintaining servers, etc.

John.Doe

First and foremost, let me commend you on letting this thread run its course instead of going the easy route by locking it up, as undoubtedly most other companies would. I seriously appreciate that much honesty in dealing with your customer base.



Hence, I shall do my part and try to keep from ranting as much as humanly possible.



Believe it or not, I read all 29 pages in order to get picture of Agile's stance on the topic.



Essentially, I think Agile isn't quite aware of the true scope of the discussion. This isn't about MAS, this is about Apple slowly turning a powerful OS into a limited FisherPrice™ toy in order to increase revenue by catering to lowest IQ thinkable and Agile heeding the call without hesitation. Of course, this will affect any user in the long run and you can't really expect everybody to embrace that direction without a grudge.



Of course, the MAS offers you a tremendous publicity and it'd be foolish not to use it. So do many other companies and yet they continue to run their business as usual. Take Scrivener for example, they say that they love the MAS giving them so much attention, especially since a great many end up on their web site where they buy the regular version saving them from Apple's 30% axe. That way they get to have their cake and eat it, too—increased sales through the MAS on their shop and not losing 30% revenue. Seems perfectly reasonable to me and I don't have the slightest clue why this wouldn't work with 1P either.



Instead, we end up with increasingly dumbed downed versions. As of now, with an entire development team behind it, I can't even see such basics like auto-save coming back. Same goes for taking out the permanent unlock—a total no-go for me, working on a stationary computer in a secure environment and not seeing the point in entering my password every other minute because the developer decieded to save myself from my own decisions. This is also the number one reson for not buying the windows version and as it will be axed on the glorious MAS version, that'll break my workflow on the Mac, too.



In the end, it was a great ride and I enjoyed 1P very much in the past, but cutting features because morons lose passwords or moaning about the sales portion of your work (which every company has to deal with) and rather cut down service instead of hiring somebody to do the part you seem to hate is a clear sign for the door.



Maybe we'll meet again in the future once you go unrestricted, re-delivering the features that made your app so great and useful to everybody—geeks and regulars alike.

LosInvalidos

John.Doe hit the nail and either Agile didn't think this thing through or they are more interested in cash than in freedom.



I really question the long-sightedness of core mangement at Agile. But hey, as I said, maybe they are all about the money. I know freedom sucks... 1984 here we come. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

lhotka

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1316282558' post='49985']

I think we've outlined a number of times our reasoning for going to a MAS only model. Right now the biggest complaints I'm seeing are regarding the browser extensions. We'd like our developers to be able to focus their time on those, rather than licensing, maintaining servers, etc.

[/quote]



You mean like you have to for the Windows version?