1Password ONLY from App Store?

Catcher · September 2011

I'm guessing that a lot of people posting here have no experience of working (or have actually worked) in a commercial world or are not experienced in making decisions that can influence a company's earnings. I have no idea if 1P started out as a hobby type project or whether it was intended to generate income from the outset. I'm a fairly late adopter.

I have to hope that my company - even in these hard times - continues to be successful, because if they aren't then my job is possibly on the line. I make decisions on a monthly basis that I know will piss a customer or two off, but if I look at that customers contribution to our annual turnover then I know that I can afford to lose that customer - commercial decisions again. I think that those who say they will abandon 1P are a little naive, it won't bring the company down, shouldn't and probably wont affect their decision making process.

For me (we only care about me) I think Agile has made the right decision. It's all down to choice.

Blacky · September 2011

[quote name='Catcher' timestamp='1315821051' post='48104']

I'm guessing that a lot of people posting here have no experience of working (or have actually worked) in a commercial world or are not experienced in making decisions that can influence a company's earnings.[/quote]

Wrong guess, at least concerning me.

[quote name='Catcher' timestamp='1315821051' post='48104']I make decisions on a monthly basis that I know will piss a customer or two off, but if I look at that customers contribution to our annual turnover then I know that I can afford to lose that customer - commercial decisions again.[/quote] I don't think any company can actually afford to lose even one customer. Imho, that's a very bad attitude if you own a company and the first step downhill.

[quote name='Catcher' timestamp='1315821051' post='48104']I think that those who say they will abandon 1P are a little naive, it won't bring the company down, shouldn't and probably wont affect their decision making process.[/quote]

I think that statement is naive. Say that again if a significant percentage of the existent customer base actually does abandon 1password as a consequence of those decisions. If you own a company, you know how much harder/more expensive it is to gain new customers than to hold old ones. And even if that's not going to happen, even if Agile will gain more customers than they loose in the long run, what does it say about the now pretty good relationship between a company and their customers. If you only see your annual turnover and not the customer itself then you may not care, but I still believe Agile does care a little more.

But yes, you are right.. it's all down to choice. BTW, not many here were threatening to abandon the software, most people just said what they are concerned about.

Catcher · September 2011

[quote name='Blacky' timestamp='1315823310' post='48108']

Wrong guess, at least concerning me.

I don't think any company can actually afford to lose even one customer. Imho, that's a very bad attitude if you own a company and the first step downhill.

I think that statement is naive. Say that again if a significant percentage of the existent customer base actually does abandon 1password as a consequence of those decisions. If you own a company, you know how much harder/more expensive it is to gain new customers than to hold old ones. And even if that's not going to happen, even if Agile will gain more customers than they loose in the long run, what does it say about the now pretty good relationship between a company and their customers. If you only see your annual turnover and not the customer itself then you may not care, but I still believe Agile does care a little more than you, obviously.

But yes, you are right.. it's all down to choice. BTW, not many here were threatening to abandon the software, most people just said what they are concerned about.

[/quote]

A company owes you £15,000 and refuses to pay - if you don't have that money you can't afford to pay your workforce. If you can't afford to pay your workforce they will leave and take legal action via a tribunal to recover any monies owing. If you take that company to court and win you would have pissed off that company and they will never trade with you again but you would have secured the salary's of your workforce - your choice.

Scfc · September 2011

Sorry guys,

Not amused at all. yes access via App store is great but having to pay again is a real no go.

Shame, I have been a long time user and supporter, and evangelist. I bought family pack and IOS license and now having to pay again sorry no!

I will keep this version and not upgrade, although I would love to support you with your new version, customer service should come first.

I suggest you guys use your creative thinking to find a more suitable solution for us early adopters who have supported your product from the early days.

Blacky · September 2011

[quote name='Catcher' timestamp='1315823962' post='48109']

A company owes you £15,000 and refuses to pay - if you don't have that money you can't afford to pay your workforce. If you take that company to court and win you would have pissed off that company but secured the salary's of your workforce - your choice.

[/quote]

You are talking about b2b conflicts totally out of context, what does this have to do with consumer relationship and Agile's decisions? It's (most probably) not like Agile couldn't have paid their workforce without the move to MAS and the way they've done it. Anyway, this is too off-topic now, if you want to continue that discussion I'd suggest to do that via PMs, or we just drop it. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

Catcher · September 2011

[quote name='Blacky' timestamp='1315824788' post='48111']

You are talking about b2b conflicts totally out of context, what does this have to do with consumer relationship and Agile's decisions? It's (most probably) not like Agile couldn't have paid their workforce without the move to MAS and the way they've done it. Anyway, this is too off-topic now, if you want to continue that discussion I'd suggest to do that via PNs, or we just drop it. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

[/quote]

I have no intention of PN'ing you - I have no idea what that is. Dropping it it is a good way forward - good luck in the real world.

kisses

C

Blacky · September 2011

[quote name='Catcher' timestamp='1315825528' post='48112']

I have no intention of PN'ing you - I have no idea what that is. Dropping it it is a good way forward - good luck in the real world.[/quote]

I ment PMs, private messages in the forum. But it won't do any good you are right. Trust me, I am quite successful in the real and the business world, I know about necessary decisions. Good luck with your customers once they find out your real attitude.

I have to refuse the kisses though, no offense. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

lachlanj · September 2011

[quote]If you've purchased within the last 30 days, we can refund your purchase so you can buy from the MAS at no additional expense.[/quote]

Fantastic, I specifically put off purchasing this as I thought it would eventually be release in the app store. I decided to bite the bullet 40 days ago... great timing as it seemed like there was no sign of this happening soon. Looks like i'll be rewarded by paying twice.

Catcher · September 2011

[quote name='Blacky' timestamp='1315825949' post='48113']

I ment PMs, private messages in the forum. But it won't do any good you are right. Trust me, I am quite successful in the real and the business world, I know about necessary decisions. Good luck with your customers once they find out your real attitude.

I have to refuse the kisses though, no offense. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

[/quote]

My customers have known my attitude for the last twenty years, hope yours can say the same going forward.

dwh · September 2011

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315779507' post='47933']

No one is forcing anyone to take a leap of faith. If you aren't interested in the deal we're offering, as we're offering it, then you don't have to accept it. If when we have all the info about v4 and you then decide you are interested in it, you can buy it then. It's not like you'll be locked out from v4 if you don't buy it right now. It's an early bird special. If you aren't an early bird, feel free to ignore.

[/quote]

Please accept that at least some of your customers, including me, feel forced to take a leap of faith or risk having to pay full price for 4.0. Your approach (discounted upgrade now while no information on 4.0 is available, with no guarantees of a discounted price when 4.0 is released) has turned this upgrade into a source of stress.

I honestly don't know what I'm going to do at this point, but I AM looking at other options for password management now. That was not true a week ago, and it's entirely due to Agile's approach to this upgrade. Again, I don't mind paying $20 for a substantial upgrade, but that is not what I'm being asked to consider at this point. I like Agile and 1Password, but I am NOT going to give you $20 without knowing what my money is going to buy me.

operationworld · September 2011

AWS Team... I bought a family pack of 1Pass this year -

[b] 1Password Mac + Windows Bundle[/b]

I have downloaded only 2 of my 5 users so far... how does that translate into the MAS 3.9 for LION avenue now?

thanks!

Blacky · September 2011

[quote name='Mangoes' timestamp='1315837031' post='48158']

http://www.***

[/quote]

I'm not sure if posting links to the competition is helpful. We all know there are alternatives (even though those guys have iOS app prices that are much more reasonable), but let's keep it fair in their own forums.

Highterrain · September 2011

I bit the bullet yesterday and purchased 1 Password from AppStore and even though I don't agree with Agile going this route since as far as I'm concerned Apple is being greedy on how they charge 30% of the sale, I believe that Agile did it not so much for profit but more for convenience as this will free up resources within their org to pursue making 1 Password the best password app for the Mac.

I had concerns after installing the app and those were answered very quickly on the other forum they have set up with the purchase from the App Store.

Now maybe they'll support Chrome (Canary) Apples (Webkit) and all the other beta browsers out there that they have refused to support in the past. Hint, hint.

frame · September 2011

Hello Agilebits,

I've got three questions:

1. Will the MAS version drop the Lion requirement? I cannot switch away from Snow Leopard. Why is there even such a tremendously harsh requirement? The OS is out since a few weeks! SL is (still) an amazing and great Operating System.

2. If I stay at 3.8.x, will you maintain basic support for future browsers versions? If not, would you please consider to put the older plugins into the public domain so we, the community, could maintain them?

3. Assuming I'll be able to update to Lion at some point, will 3.9/4+ still contain WIFI Sync? This feature is extremely important for me.

Ben · September 2011

[quote name='frame' timestamp='1315839220' post='48165']

Hello Agilebits,

I've got three questions:

1. Will the MAS version drop the Lion requirement? I cannot switch away from Snow Leopard. Why is there even such a tremendously harsh requirement? The OS is out since a few weeks! SL is (still) an amazing and great Operating System.

2. If I stay at 3.8.x, will you maintain basic support for future browsers versions? If not, would you please consider to put the older plugins into the public domain so we, the community, could maintain them?

3. Assuming I'll be able to update to Lion at some point, will 3.9/4+ still contain WIFI Sync? This feature is extremely important for me.

[/quote]

Hi frame,

1Password 3.9 and greater will require Lion. We will continue to support 3.8.x which works with Snow Leopard, not additional purchase required.

I do know that we plan to continue to update the browser extensions for the 3.8.x line into the immediate future.

3.9 does still contain WiFi sync. I do not know what 4.0 will bring. We have been recommending Dropbox sync for a long time now over WiFi sync but continue to support WiFi sync to the best of our ability.

[quote name='operationworld' timestamp='1315834862' post='48147']

AWS Team... I bought a family pack of 1Pass this year -

[b] 1Password Mac + Windows Bundle[/b]

I have downloaded only 2 of my 5 users so far... how does that translate into the MAS 3.9 for LION avenue now?

thanks!

[/quote]

MAS licensing works a bit differently. There is no such thing as a single user license or a family license. Each purchase is tied to an Apple ID. You are allowed to install MAS apps on any computers that you own or control for your personal use, per Apple's policy here: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4461 (FAQ #1)

Ben · September 2011

[quote name='Mangoes' timestamp='1315812425' post='48076']

Some of your replies have been rude.

[/quote]

I sincerely apologize if any of my replies have come across as rude.

Ben · September 2011

[quote name='Blacky' timestamp='1315837866' post='48159']

I'm not sure if posting links to the competition is helpful. We all know there are alternatives (even though those guys have iOS app prices that are much more reasonable), but let's keep it fair in their own forums.

[/quote]

Mangos, please see this thread:

[url="http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/7498-competition-is-anyone-else-ready-to-quit-1p/"]http://forum.agilebi...ady-to-quit-1p/[/url]

hmurchison · September 2011

[quote name='dwh' timestamp='1315833629' post='48143']

I honestly don't know what I'm going to do at this point, but I AM looking at other options for password management now. That was not true a week ago, and it's entirely due to Agile's approach to this upgrade. Again, I don't mind paying $20 for a substantial upgrade, but that is not what I'm being asked to consider at this point. I like Agile and 1Password, but I am NOT going to give you $20 without knowing what my money is going to buy me.

[/quote]

Sounds like it's better off for you to wait and see how things shake out. If $20 is causing you stress then don't do it. Even if you have to pay full boat come 4.0 it's still only $40 for the license if Agile keeps current pricing.

frame · September 2011

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315841593' post='48172']

I do know that we plan to continue to update the browser extensions for the 3.8.x line into the immediate future.

3.9 does still contain WiFi sync. I do not know what 4.0 will bring. We have been recommending Dropbox sync for a long time now over WiFi sync but continue to support WiFi sync to the best of our ability.

[/quote]

Thanks for the quick reply. Active maintenance for 3.8.x sounds very good. I'm less worried now.

Still, sadly I can no longer recommend your product and I hope a competitor will manage to fill in the gap.

dwh · September 2011

[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1315842037' post='48180']

Sounds like it's better off for you to wait and see how things shake out. If $20 is causing you stress then don't do it. Even if you have to pay full boat come 4.0 it's still only $40 for the license if Agile keeps current pricing.

[/quote]

It's not stressful in terms of affecting my ability to sleep or anything. It's stress in terms of being put in the position of having to give attention to making a decision on whether to upgrade now in hopes that the $20 will be worth it or not.

If the $20 charge came in conjunction with an announcement of what was coming in 4.0, I would almost certainly look at it and say "looks like some good stuff, and $20 is cheap, and I want to support them". But being asked to pay up front on speculation forces a decision with incomplete information, and creates a situation where I am not happy with the situation the company is putting me in, but I am generally happy with the product itself.

My post was really pointing out to Agile that the statements of "no one is being forced to.." does not really convey that we ARE being forced to make a decision with less information, which IS stressful to some degree (more so for some people than others, of course).

DoNotStaple · September 2011

It's simple: if you are staying with SL, stay with 1PW 3.8.x. And, there are many ways to download 3.9 per this forum and use it later if you move up to Lion

If you are moving to Lion, get 3.9.x from the MAS. $20 is a bargain.

If you are going to complain, complain!

However, the complaints are not very well founded.

Agilebits made a business decision which we can live with, or live without.

It's up to each individual to decide what is best for themselves, but the whining is becoming scratches on a chalkboard. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='<_<' />

Ben · September 2011

[quote name='dwh' timestamp='1315842751' post='48188']

My post was really pointing out to Agile that the statements of "no one is being forced to.." does not really convey that we ARE being forced to make a decision with less information, which IS stressful to some degree (more so for some people than others, of course).

[/quote]

I apologize for that and will grant that there is some trust required here. You are trusting that 1Password is a product that you'll want to continue to use at the latest version. Our policy has been to under promise and over deliver and it seems that with that our customers seem much happier in the end versus the couple of times we over promised and then were unable to deliver.

Ben · September 2011

[quote name='DoNotStaple' timestamp='1315842893' post='48191']

It's up to each individual to decide what is best for themselves, but the whining is becoming scratches on a chalkboard. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='<_<' />

[/quote]

I'll disagree with your last point there. I'm happy to hear complaints from anyone. They wouldn't complain if they didn't care about the product. I'd much rather have complaints than silence.

That said I simply cannot reply to every single post that does not have a technical or customer support question. I've done my best to address everyone's concerns up to this point and will happily continue to do so.

DoNotStaple · September 2011

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315843116' post='48195']

I'll disagree with your last point there. I'm happy to hear complaints from anyone. They wouldn't complain if they didn't care about the product. I'd much rather have complaints than silence.

That said I simply cannot reply to every single post that does not have a technical or customer support question. I've done my best to address everyone's concerns up to this point and will happily continue to do so.

[/quote]

Ben,

I only meant that some of these complaints are downright silly, and agin, scratches on a chalkboard. I do, however, defer to your reply. Complaints are something that Agile has to address.

Ben · September 2011

[quote name='DoNotStaple' timestamp='1315843567' post='48199']

Ben,

I only meant that some of these complaints are downright silly, and agin, scratches on a chalkboard. I do, however, defer to your reply. Complaints are something that Agile has to address.

[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

onemorelogin · September 2011

[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315771737' post='47875']

We can't say when the deadline for purchasing at a discount is because we don't know. The decision has not been made yet. When the decision has been made, I promise we will post a tweet to our twitter account 24 hours before the discount is discontinued. [url="http://twitter.com/#!/1password"]http://twitter.com/#!/1password[/url]

That's the best I can offer at the moment.

[/quote]

As I mentioned in my previous post, providing an advance notice of a week (or two) would be helpful. A notice of 24 hours isn't useful at all, considering the fact that not everyone checks (or may check) Twitter every single day. And considering timezone differences, it's very easy to miss seeing the tweet until it's too late.

I don't believe you'd really lose a lot of money by announcing the promo end date a week in advance compared to 24 hours in advance. I believe the exposure from MAS would more than compensate for any such notional loss.

Please provide a notice of at least one week, if not two weeks, and:

1. Post on Twitter (preferably daily with a countdown)

2. Post a blog entry on agilebits.com

Thanks!

Ben · September 2011

All I can promise at this point is 24 hour notification via Twitter. As I've mentioned above, we tend to under promise and over deliver, but 24 hours is the best I'll be able to promise at this point. I imagine as soon as it hits Twitter, someone (either one of us or one of you) will post it here. That is purely speculation though.

For those concerned about business purchases, I have added a new FAQ:

[u][u][b][size=5]1Password for Businesses / Academic Institutions[/size][/b][/u][/u]

in the [url="http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/8068-official-answers-1password-and-the-mac-app-store/"]OFFICIAL ANSWERS: 1Password and the Mac App Store[/url] thread.

contradictionofgerms · September 2011

Just bought my copy of 3.9 and the upgrade went flawlessly.

I, too, was hesitant about paying for software without knowing what it'll change (4.0), but odds are good I would have upgraded anyway since I bought in at around 1.x (I think...) and have had the iOS app since it first came out.

All this to say, thank you for the hard work. I can see you guys are getting a bit beat up lately (I won't weigh on on wether I think it was deserved as I've been very happy and haven't had (almost) any problems, though I realize some aren't having as easy a time as me) and I just wanted to throw in a positive.

Again, thanks!

dennis

Ben · September 2011

Thanks Dennis! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

jpgoldberg · September 2011

Hi all,

Just a couple of comments.

We discourage discussion of competing products on the our forums, largely because it would pretty much force us to comment on the designs of competing products. Doing so would be unseemly at best.

For those who you who point out that we've said nothing about what will be in 1Password 4 or about its pricing, you are absolutely correct. We try not to talk about features until they are delivered. (We've twice in the past promised things that it turned out we couldn't deliver. We don't want to be in the vaporware business. [For those keeping score, these were iOS syncing with WebDAV and customizable wallet items. Each of these were "90% done", but the remaining 10% was a doozy.])

As for pricing, I think everyone can understand why we can't say whether there will be special promotions in the future. But one thing to keep in mind is that with the Mac App Store, we can no longer have different prices for different people. So when 1Password 4 arrives on the Mac App Store, there will be no way to offer a different price for current non-MAS license holders. That is, there will be no mechanism for "upgrade" pricing for those who have old licenses.

So the current discounted price of 3.9 in the MAS with its free upgrade to 4.0 is our way of providing discounted upgrades to current users.

Your decision, whether to hold off until 4.0 is available or to buy in now at the discounted price, involves some uncertainty, particularly about the pricing and features of 4.0.

For those of you who have purchased 1Password3 directly from us in the past 30, the decision is easy. Ask for a refund of that purchase and then go for the MAS version. For the rest of you, while I can make no promises about what will be available when and for what price, given everything that I know at this time, I very sincerely believe that making a purchase now through the MAS will be your best deal.

Cheers,

-j

1Password ONLY from App Store?

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