This is a staging forum for AgileBits, not an official support forum. Visit http://discussions.agilebits.com instead.
1Password ONLY from App Store?
Comments
-
[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1315517343' post='45681']
Far too melodramatic and predictable. The minute you waxed on about how you'd pay FULL price in support Agile I knew the passive-agressive stance was coming. 1Password 4 is going to be MAS only. Agile hasn't stated when that's coming....it could be many months which would give you time to move to Lion at a reasonable pace.
You're not a loyal Agile customer as you pretend to be. I just purchased 1Password for from the MAS store. I like their product and I don't get consumed with silly politics and faux outrage over a distribution method. Just bought my 4th license for 1password and I will continue to extol their features when fair-weather fans such as yourself have moved on to your next target to unleash your boorish and passive aggressive tendencies on.
[/quote]
Hah! This is a company that you purchased a product from. A company that is treating you and their other customers very poorly. Its obviously more than just a distribution method at stake here. I don't know what to make of people who say they or others should be "loyal" to someone selling them something. It's the other way around. But obviously Agile figures, like you, that we need them more than they need us. For those who do get steamrolled into this remember you can leave comments on the Mac app store so new customers can see how Agile treats current customers.
This is like Netflix charging more for getting less than you used too.
Read the comments. Agile has only thought this through as to how it is good for them.Flag 0 -
[quote name='johnnywoz' timestamp='1315517987' post='45700']
I have to agree with this entirely. Many corporations limit internet access in various ways, most notably to many of the useful services such as DropBox, MAS, iTunes, youTube, Facebook, etc. Therefore by offering ONLY one location (that is restricted by many COs) for obtaining a wonderful security application such as 1P will inherently limit sales of 1P.
I second the vote that AgileBits should continue to offer 1P on the web in addition to MAS.
[/quote]
Even worse they will have people buying 1Password that do not understand these limitations only to find out they cannot use the app. There are no returns allowed on the app store. Enjoy the flood of angry existing and new customers Agile.Flag 0 -
[quote name='shinratdr' timestamp='1315517622' post='45685']
I have no problem with the distribution method personally, I just won't support axing features that I and other people use every day in 1Password to achieve it. The extensive list of changes shows that the MAS just isn't suited for 1Password. Offer it as an option to gain exposure, that's fine. Make it exclusive and ruin the experience for existing customers? That's bad.
[/quote]
People buy 1Password to manage their passwords and other data that needs to be secure. I looked at the MAS version and there's just no showstoppers there that prevent the app for doing its intended function. I doubt that the typical consumer wanting a reprieve from the litany of passwords they must manage will have much of an issue with the feature set of MAS 1PW.Flag 0 -
I would just like to say that one other benefit your users are losing is the ability to downgrade from a problematic upgrade.
A short while ago, one of my everyday (read: critical) apps upgraded to a newer version. The App store users got the automatic upgrade, while the manual users downloaded and installed it. The the newer version had fundamental problems and it's usability was compromised.
All of the App Store people were stuck in the water, unable to use it until the producer was able to reproduce the problem, fix it, and then get another upgrade submitted and accepted by the store (about a week).
Meanwhile all the manual users just uninstalled the newest version and reinstalled the previous version and were able to continue working that very same day.
This is a very important feature, especially for your application that asks us to trust it with all of our login information. Being able to back step to a working version to counteract an unforeseen bug or app compatibility is critical.
Again, I ask, what benefit does AgileBits gain from dropping the non-App Store version of their application?Flag 0 -
[quote name='johnnywoz' timestamp='1315517987' post='45700']
I have to agree with this entirely. Many corporations limit internet access in various ways, most notably to many of the useful services such as DropBox, MAS, iTunes, youTube, Facebook, etc. Therefore by offering ONLY one location (that is restricted by many COs) for obtaining a wonderful security application such as 1P will inherently limit sales of 1P.
I second the vote that AgileBits should continue to offer 1P on the web in addition to MAS.
[/quote]
Corporations had the same problem with mobile apps for iPhone and iPad. The solution from Apple was simply to enable a corporate feature where developers of iOS apps can simply deal with Corps over a private website and bypass the need for Apple ID to be associated with the apps. Currently the MAS doesn't support this feature but iOS app delivery for volume licensing has already blazed this trail. I have no knowledge on if Apple will or won't extend the same benefits to Enterprise but it's definitely possible.
Licensing is pretty simple and should be the least of our worries about MAS which is simply a distribution and payment processing mechanism.Flag 0 -
Hi, I just bought 1Password from the site on the 26th of August and was told that anyone who bought the app within the last 30 days could request a refund. If this is true I would gladly go purchase a copy from the Mac App Store. Who do I need to talk to about this? Thanks in advance.Flag 0
-
[quote name='darwinosx' timestamp='1315518026' post='45701']
Hah! This is a company that you purchased a product from. A company that is treating you and their other customers very poorly. Its obviously more than just a distribution method at stake here. I don't know what to make of people who say they or others should be "loyal" to someone selling them something. It's the other way around. But obviously Agile figures, like you, that we need them more than they need us. For those who do get steamrolled into this remember you can leave comments on the Mac app store so new customers can see how Agile treats current customers.
This is like Netflix charging more for getting less than you used too.
Read the comments. Agile has only thought this through as to how it is good for them.
[/quote]
Agile has been very good to me and I also realize that the MAS will improve and become more flexible over time but that it must be managed. If someone cannot install software on their business computers then it's incumbent upon them to talk to their IT and rectify that issue. It sounds a lot like people are coming up with excuses that affect maybe 5% of Agiles customers and using these scenarios as proof against a policy that will likely benefit 80% or more of Agile customer.Flag 0 -
Whooooa, let's all slowdown a wee bit here. First, having been around AgileBits through name changes, product and company, I can state without hesitation that the AB team is nothing but top-shelf, honest, and forthright—that's never changed. Change is inevitable, but not all change is good. The future of software distribution—for the masses—will be app stores through all major corporations in this business. This leaves a prime market for private distribution that users will be more than willing to pay for (don't discount for one minute that tech corporations don't already know this and aren't planning for it). For those of us who have been around Apple far longer than most, we know that Apple is no saint about matters, and just because Steve Jobs says something is obsolete doesn't mean it's so (Steve, is a marketer, first and foremost; more power to him for his success).
I still vehemently support AgileBits, and their software—they're still one of best out there!
Other 1P users need to understand that fellow 1P users might be under other constraints—beyond their control—and therefor frown at MAS only distribution.Flag 0 -
Since Lion and Safari 5.1, and FF6 came out, I've lost count how many times 1Password and it's various extensions have been updated. While it's slightly annoying when every other time you launch a program it's got an update (beta channel), it's far preferable to either having to wait to upgrade a browser (security issue) until Apple gets around to approving the next MAS update, or having a broken extension because the current MAS version doesn't work with the new browser yet, and probably won't for at least another week, probably two (an annoyance issue).
The irony is, you've changed your name to AgileBits to reflect your quick adaptation to software changes... and then you decide to make 1P4 MAS only? That's the polar opposite of agile software.
As others have said, I have no problem with you using the MAS. I even applaud the MAS on principle, as it gives lesser known software some much needed exposure. But going MAS only is counterintuitive. There are no, as far as I'm aware, restrictions to maintaining a MAS and non-MAS version of software. Something that could likely be scripted to automatically compile both versions simultaneously.
I was using KeePass before I switched to Mac and discovered 1Password, and I now have 1P on my Macs, my Windows VMs/Boot Camp, and my iPhone and iPad. I never advocated KeePass to family and friends because it wasn't the most convenient piece of software, but I've sold several people on 1Password, both Mac and Windows users specifically because of the incredible browser integration. Hearing that 1P4 is going to me MAS only, however, has me seriously considering switching back to KeePass (or KeePass X) in the future. I much prefer to have my software updates the moment they're ready, not after a week+ approval period. I implore you to reconsider, and continue offering a non-MAS build of 1P.Flag 0 -
[quote name='binarynomad' timestamp='1315518384' post='45709']
Again, I ask, what benefit does AgileBits gain from dropping the non-App Store version of their application?
[/quote]
Credibility by being vetted by Apple
No more lost serial numbers to provide
Easy installation for consumers adding new computers.
Sandboxing
Marketing via MAS and payment processing through iTunes
Better consumer experience
I'm doubtful that a poor upgrade to 1PW happened in sufficient quantity over the last year to warrant looking
past the benefits of the MASFlag 0 -
[quote name='darwinosx' timestamp='1315518026' post='45701']
Hah! This is a company that you purchased a product from. A company that is treating you and their other customers very poorly. Its obviously more than just a distribution method at stake here. I don't know what to make of people who say they or others should be "loyal" to someone selling them something. It's the other way around. But obviously Agile figures, like you, that we need them more than they need us. For those who do get steamrolled into this remember you can leave comments on the Mac app store so new customers can see how Agile treats current customers.
This is like Netflix charging more for getting less than you used too.
Read the comments. Agile has only thought this through as to how it is good for them.
[/quote]
So we are not people anymore, I guess. Thanks.
All we want is to develop great software instead of spending our time keeping the servers running, dealing with payment gateways, generating licenses and resending lost receipts. I am not sure if you care but I was up in the middle of night many times this year bringing our server up, running database migrations and system updates. And the "licensing code" costed 1Password at least a couple of really great features that we didn't have time to implement.Flag 0 -
Well....
I feel like I've just been shafted by AgileBits ... again.
1Password 4 will be Mac Appstore only? Buy now or pay full price? Are you guys crazy? I don't feel like giving you guys another single penny after the current, ongoing disaster with the Safari extension. Why would I plow more money into a product which is now extremely frustrating and flakey to use?
I own the Mac, iPad and Windows version but I think my support for your software ends here.
What puzzles me is your attitude. You guys keep blurting on about how good you are and how great the new 1Password is and this that and the other, but a quick skim around the forums or google shows a HUGE amount of unhappy 1Password users, me included.
Somebody asked me at work today if I knew of any software that could manage all of their passwords for them. I told them "No". A sad day indeed.Flag 0 -
[quote name='shinratdr' timestamp='1315517303' post='45679']
How about actually listening to the feedback you're getting?
[/quote]
We certainly are listening. Please remember we've been in the MAS for a grand total of about 17 hours now. Please give us some time to process it. In fact, I've seen IPBoard alert me to 10+ replies to this thread since I started replying to you <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> It will take a while to process it all! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />
[quote name='shinratdr' timestamp='1315517303' post='45679']
The MAS is good but just not feature complete for this sort of app. Why rush it? And if you must rush it, why screw over all existing users in the process? Just continue to maintain the non-MAS branch.
From what other developers have written about this process on their blogs, maintaining two versions is not that big a deal.
[/quote]
We very well might do this someday but we're leaning against it. Please remember that this is new ground for us and we're trying to decide what works best for us and our customers. We felt it was much better to say "MAS Only" and change our mind later than to say "Two Versions For Ever" and then never be able to change that decision.
We still have version 3.8 in our store but I fear this will confuse people. So much has changed in 3.9 to make it MAS compatible that it is not a trivial matter to port it back. It's certainly not impossible, but it complicates things and we were hoping that MAS-only would simplify things greatly.
Having two channels may seem like a minor problem when looking at it from the outside, when you multiply decisions like these a few hundred times you end up with a very complex solution that makes it very difficult to react to changes. For example, we've had many things going on over the last few years and we feel we are moving too slow. Our hope is to start moving faster and to do this we've been trying to simplify and streamline things.
[quote name='shinratdr' timestamp='1315517303' post='45679']
As someone who has converted 5 people to 1Password and owns $100+ worth of 1Password licenses across Mac, Windows and iOS, I feel like you guys simply don't care that people are concerned and it's driving me crazy.
[/quote]
I'm sorry you feel this way; nothing could be further from the truth! It would have been easier to just say nothing about our future plans but we care for our customers too much to leave them in the dark. We are listening and no decision is final but as of 11:30am today I felt MAS-only was the right approach. Time will tell.
[quote name='shinratdr' timestamp='1315517303' post='45679']
Is it too much to ask to get a reply from someone new? I don't feel like "bwoodruff" really cares or has any ability to change anything. This is a REAL issue AgileBits, stop jerking us around.
[/quote]
It's certainly not too much to ask <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> But please be nice to bwoodruff, he's a very good guy and he is trying to help and he cares a lot.Flag 0 -
[quote name='doone128' timestamp='1315519215' post='45730']
Well....
I feel like I've just been shafted by AgileBits ... again.
1Password 4 will be Mac Appstore only? Buy now or pay full price? Are you guys crazy? I don't feel like giving you guys another single penny after the current, ongoing disaster with the Safari extension. Why would I plow more money into a product which is now extremely frustrating and flakey to use?
I own the Mac, iPad and Windows version but I think my support for your software ends here.
What puzzles me is your attitude. You guys keep blurting on about how good you are and how great the new 1Password is and this that and the other, but a quick skim around the forums or google shows a HUGE amount of unhappy 1Password users, me included.
Somebody asked me at work today if I knew of any software that could manage all of their passwords for them. I told them "No". A sad day indeed.
[/quote]
I do not think anyone forces you to purchase 1Password from Mac App Store. The Safari extension is now distributed separately from 1Password and will be improved independently, even if you keep using 1Password 3.Flag 0 -
[quote name='jay_gunn' timestamp='1315518953' post='45725']
I was using KeePass before I switched to Mac and discovered 1Password, and I now have 1P on my Macs, my Windows VMs/Boot Camp, and my iPhone and iPad. I never advocated KeePass to family and friends because it wasn't the most convenient piece of software, but I've sold several people on 1Password, both Mac and Windows users specifically because of the incredible browser integration. Hearing that 1P4 is going to me MAS only, however, has me seriously considering switching back to KeePass (or KeePass X) in the future. I much prefer to have my software updates the moment they're ready, not after a week+ approval period. I implore you to reconsider, and continue offering a non-MAS build of 1P.
[/quote]
So what you're saying here is that YOUR needs for fast updates trump potentially more viable options (Agile) for your recommendations? What if they don't care about having 10 updates a week? What if they just want stable software? We all know here Agile software is far more user friendly than KeePass but in the end it's your recommendation that is either going to carry weight or not.Flag 0 -
[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1315519007' post='45726']
Credibility by being vetted by Apple
No more lost serial numbers to provide
Easy installation for consumers adding new computers.
Sandboxing
Marketing via MAS and payment processing through iTunes
Better consumer experience
I'm doubtful that a poor upgrade to 1PW happened in sufficient quantity over the last year to warrant looking
past the benefits of the MAS
[/quote]
[b] [url="user/8917-hmurchison/"]hmurchison[/url], I'm not arguing against having a MAS version, but I am arguing to keep a non-MAS version. They (AgileBits) can retain almost all of those benefits for the users that decide to use MAS, and provide an opiton/path for users that have more technical needs.[/b]
@AgileBits: PS (side note): How does the App Store allow for "Try before you Buy" like AgileBits does now. And how do Business (group) licenses work in a MAS only environment?Flag 0 -
I'm one more person who will not be following 1Password to the MAS. I don't trust Apple to not control what goes into the store for their own purposes so I do not patronize the MAS beyond upgrading Apple software. I was previously an iPhone user but switched to the Android because Apple used the app store as a way to control what people could run on their computers. I'm not talking about blocking malware, but rather blocking competing browsers and email programs, as well as programs that were politically sensitive. I understand that the MAS is not a monopoly the way the iOS app store is, but I do not want to encourage Apple to control what people run on their Macs by patronizing the store. Plus, I have seen with one of my other favorite apps (Evernote) that app store distribution can mean a loss of features. It does not look like I would lose anything I care about with 1Password, but I should not have to worry about Apple's controls to begin with.Flag 0
-
[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315519402' post='45734']
I do not think anyone forces you to purchase 1Password from Mac App Store.
[/quote]
Well, YOU are actually forcing us if we want to get 1Password 4 and whatever features that holds, and at a discount price. I don't believe for a second that support for the Safari extension will continue long for v3 once the ball is rolling with v4. Sorry, but the whole extension thing has just left an extremely sour taste in my mouth.
I'm off for a while now, so maybe things will improve by the time I return.
Thanks and take care.Flag 0 -
[quote name='beirne' timestamp='1315519889' post='45744']
I'm one more person who will not be following 1Password to the MAS. I don't trust Apple to not control what goes into the store for their own purposes so I do not patronize the MAS beyond upgrading Apple software. I was previously an iPhone user but switched to the Android because Apple used the app store as a way to control what people could run on their computers. I'm not talking about blocking malware, but rather blocking competing browsers and email programs, as well as programs that were politically sensitive. I understand that the MAS is not a monopoly the way the iOS app store is, but I do not want to encourage Apple to control what people run on their Macs by patronizing the store. Plus, I have seen with one of my other favorite apps (Evernote) that app store distribution can mean a loss of features. It does not look like I would lose anything I care about with 1Password, but I should not have to worry about Apple's controls to begin with.
[/quote]
Off topic rant. This isn't about Apple control it's about letting Agile make software and not have to worry about the distribution, payment processing and more. I think they've made a brilliant decision because Microsoft will be delivering a similar store which means they'll be able to deliver 1PW there as well and that will comprise 90% of their installations. I do note the irony in your post though. You obviously care about security so it's no wonder you jumped from Apple products to Google products. Google has absolutely NO interest in data mining or knowing what you're doing. Thank the heavens for that! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';-)' />Flag 0 -
[quote name='doone128' timestamp='1315519993' post='45745']
Well, YOU are actually forcing us if we want to get 1Password 4 and whatever features that holds, and at a discount price. I don't believe for a second that support for the Safari extension will continue long for v3 once the ball is rolling with v4. Sorry, but the whole extension thing has just left an extremely sour taste in my mouth.
I'm off for a while now, so maybe things will improve by the time I return.
Thanks and take care.
[/quote]
I have to say that I somewhat share your concerns about the upgrade model being used here. I've paid for 3.9, but looked at it as an upgrade price for version 4. My only concern is that I felt under slight pressure to do that now so I don't miss that upgrade price and that I'm committing to a product that could be released at any point with a number of features I don't know about.
Saying that, I don't think I can think of a solution other than that which could be used in the MAS.Flag 0 -
From your faq
[quote][b]1Password isn't prompting to auto-save new logins[/b]
This is a known issue and we're working on fixing this as soon as possible. Right now, please use the manual save feature to save the new Logins manually[/quote]
You're going to charge me $20 to fix this bug?Flag 0 -
No, this particular bug is with the Firefox add-on, the great thing is that these can be, and already have been, updated separately from the main application. My understanding is that we plan to continue to support, update and improve our browser extensions for all users, 1Password 3.8.x and 3.9.x can both work with the same extensions.Flag 0
-
Been a long, polarizing day for the Agile guys. I, for one, am a grateful 1P user. This has been one of, if not the most, top notch app on my Macs and iOS devices for many years. I have faith in them to continue to put out a good product and agree with their decision, because whether you want to accept it or not or have a different opinion, the future is headed toward the App Store...and not just for Apple.Flag 0
-
I don't really get the anger over the Mac App Store. It does come with limitations but primarily centered around areas where apps can
be compromised via Malware.
One thing I love about the MAS is the delta updates which means downloads are a small fraction of what they were on prior OS X version to Lion.
Hopefully iCloud will make synchronization easy to the point where you just input your Apple ID and the need for using Dropbox for the Agile Keychain
end. I'd rather use my Dropbox for other stuff.
Apple has been running the App Store for iOS devices for a while and I haven't found them to be too draconian about what they let in.Flag 0 -
[quote name='bepeacock' timestamp='1315521540' post='45775']
Been a long, polarizing day for the Agile guys. I, for one, am a grateful 1P user. This has been one of, if not the most, top notch app on my Macs and iOS devices for many years. I have faith in them to continue to put out a good product and agree with their decision, because whether you want to accept it or not or have a different opinion, the future is headed toward the App Store...and not just for Apple.
[/quote]
You can say that again! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> I started work at 9:30am this morning and it is now nearly 7pm and I'm still going. I took quick breaks for lunch and dinner, but other than that I've been trying to help folks all day.
It stings, a lot, when someone says that they think I don't care. I'm not still here because I'm getting paid overtime for it (I'm not). I'm still here because I have a genuine interest in helping out.
I appreciate your comments, bepeacock.Flag 0 -
[quote name='bepeacock' timestamp='1315521540' post='45775']
Been a long, polarizing day for the Agile guys. I, for one, am a grateful 1P user. This has been one of, if not the most, top notch app on my Macs and iOS devices for many years. I have faith in them to continue to put out a good product and agree with their decision, because whether you want to accept it or not or have a different opinion, the future is headed toward the App Store...and not just for Apple.
[/quote]
Thank you very much for your support!Flag 0
![[Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/v2/d67898e43981d615d2bad887d3056ef6.svg)
This discussion has been closed.