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1Password ONLY from App Store?
Comments
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[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315525400' post='45871']
We'll do our best. I personally worked for 12+ hours a day without weekends since June. I am not sure how long I can last like this though, this is the main reason we are trying to reduce the complexity where we can.
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I would rather pay you more money to hire more staff and reduce the individual workload than lose so many features that the program becomes useless to me. I can't speak for anyone else but I am happy to pay full price for a 1Password 4 upgrade if it is offered with the old feature set (In other words, with all intrusive changes done solely to receive MAS approval reverted) intact and outside the MAS. 1Password is invaluable to me and the cost is not the problem exactly. Paying with zero idea of what I'm going to get and paying to get less features, these are things I have a problem with.Flag 0 -
[quote name='lhotka' timestamp='1315525554' post='45872']
If you're going to make a snide comment, you should read the link you post.
"Business customers can purchase volume licenses for [u][b][i]Apple[/i][/b][/u] software". Last I looked, software like 1Password isn't owned by Apple.
The encryption is only as secure as the implementation. Great example is the current Lion/LDAP authentication issue. The protocol is secure. Apple's implementation apparently isn't.
At the moment, the ongoing series of problems with the software raise legitimate questions about its quality, which in turn, raises questions about its security.
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There is a Volume Purchase Program for iTunes App Store but I couldn't find anything about Mac App Store.Flag 0 -
[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315519029' post='45727']
So we are not people anymore, I guess. Thanks.
All we want is to develop great software instead of spending our time keeping the servers running, dealing with payment gateways, generating licenses and resending lost receipts. I am not sure if you care but I was up in the middle of night many times this year bringing our server up, running database migrations and system updates. And the "licensing code" costed 1Password at least a couple of really great features that we didn't have time to implement.
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Given the number of updates I've had in the last month and the various places the plug-in seems to move to in Safari, Firefox and Chrome, along with its unreliability with all of them, I suppose concentrating only on Lion and the App Store is a good idea for you. For me, finding a more reliable product is a good idea. The utility of 1Password disappeared some number of upgrades ago for me. I'm sure a lot of it is the horrible experience of dealing with Safari and the permanently changing Firefox. This class of product may be too complicated to be workable these days.Flag 0 -
[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315525400' post='45871']
We'll do our best. I personally worked for 12+ hours a day without weekends since June. I am not sure how long I can last like this though, this is the main reason we are trying to reduce the complexity where we can.
[/quote]
Been there and done that, and I feel your pain.
However, I wonder how much of that time has been spent supporting customer issues created by the new browser plugins. It's gotten so bad that I've resorted to copying and pasting out of the main application (which kind of defeats the whole purpose of 1P) on more than one site.
Likewise, how much work did it take to rip out all the functional code to meet app store restrictions, at the expense of abandoning a decent percentage of your customer base?
Lion is probably going to go down as Apple's Vista. Hopefully 10.8 is out before 10.7.5.Flag 0 -
[quote name='lhotka' timestamp='1315525554' post='45872']
If you're going to make a snide comment, you should read the link you post.
"Business customers can purchase volume licenses for [u][b][i]Apple[/i][/b][/u] software". Last I looked, software like 1Password isn't owned by Apple.
The encryption is only as secure as the implementation. Great example is the current Lion/LDAP authentication issue. The protocol is secure. Apple's implementation apparently isn't.
At the moment, the ongoing series of problems with the software raise legitimate questions about its quality, which in turn, raises questions about its security.
[/quote]
Forgive me. Rather than snark I should have just been more succinct. Lion for consumers is indeed attached to Apple ID much like 1Password will be but Apple already has a mechanism in play to encapsulate applications under a Business Apple ID allowing you to distribute apps within your company using whatever distribution manner works. The Mac App Store isn't a part of this but there's nothing technically from extending the same benefits to the MAS that iOS apps and Apple apps currently enjoy. Good luck on fixing your issues.Flag 0 -
[quote name='shinratdr' timestamp='1315525758' post='45876']
I would rather pay you more money to hire more staff and reduce the individual workload than lose so many features that the program becomes useless to me.
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Growing the company is not always the right answer, though.Flag 0 -
[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315525913' post='45879']
There is a Volume Purchase Program for iTunes App Store but I couldn't find anything about Mac App Store.
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Yep, and the TOS on the iTunes store cause many of the same issues, but it's slowly getting worked out - it's both legal and technical, and I suspect that it will be addressed in the long run. The way around it seems to be to provide a free app, then unlock the functionality with an internal serial number generated by an in-app, or web purchase. At which point, there's no advantage to the MAS.
Let me be clear though - Apple's sacrificed business business for consumer business across the board. Fine, that's a decent strategy, but it's one that AgileBits needs to accept as the cost of using the MAS. The earlier poster may very well have it right - being in there may generate a net positive gain for the company (more new customers than lost ones). That's a business decision, and I respect that. But let's not pretend that we (as customers) are supposed to be chipper about losing access to a piece of software that has greatly simplified (until recent bugs anyway) daily life, and that we, through word of mouth, have helped promote and sell.Flag 0 -
[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315526405' post='45891']
Growing the company is not always the right answer, though.
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Clearly listening to the peanut gallery of armchair internet business experts is, though. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />Flag 0 -
[quote name='io_burn' timestamp='1315526600' post='45895']
Clearly listening to the peanut gallery of armchair internet business experts is, though. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
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Yes, we have no shortage of those <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
I volunteer to be the first one.Flag 0 -
[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315526715' post='45898']
Yes, we have no shortage of those <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
I volunteer to be the first one.
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Roustem you don't have enough hours available in the day to be taking on moonlighting gigs. lolFlag 0 -
[quote name='lhotka' timestamp='1315526118' post='45883']
Been there and done that, and I feel your pain.
[/quote]
Sure you have.
[quote name='lhotka' timestamp='1315526118' post='45883']
However, I wonder how much of that time has been spent supporting customer issues created by the new browser plugins. It's gotten so bad that I've resorted to copying and pasting out of the main application (which kind of defeats the whole purpose of 1P) on more than one site.
[/quote]
I haven't had a problem with the browser extension since 3.6, you have had nothing but problems. WHICH ONE IS RIGHT?!
[quote name='lhotka' timestamp='1315526118' post='45883']
Likewise, how much work did it take to rip out all the functional code to meet app store restrictions, at the expense of abandoning a decent percentage of your customer base?
[/quote]
How have they abandoned their customer base? Does your copy of 1Password still work? Have they announced their intention to kill your license?
[quote name='lhotka' timestamp='1315526118' post='45883']
Lion is probably going to go down as Apple's Vista. Hopefully 10.8 is out before 10.7.5.
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This shows exactly how much you understand about Lion and software in general. Not to mention, 10.8 would be a PAID UPGRADE. CAN YOU IMAGINE PAYING FOR SOFTWARE YOU ALREADY BOUGHT? THIS IS AN OUTRAGEFlag 0 -
[quote name='io_burn' timestamp='1315526600' post='45895']
Clearly listening to the peanut gallery of armchair internet business experts is, though. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
[/quote]
I was going to write my own defence, but then I saw this and it was just so perfect:
[quote name='lhotka' timestamp='1315526575' post='45894']
That's a business decision, and I respect that. But let's not pretend that we (as customers) are supposed to be chipper about losing access to a piece of software that has greatly simplified (until recent bugs anyway) daily life, and that we, through word of mouth, have helped promote and sell.
[/quote]
Maybe my idea isn't feasible, it was just a suggestion. What is certain is is the fact that I will no longer be supporting 1Password if this isn't fixed, as will many others. If that makes good business sense for AgileBits, bully for them. I'm not going to act like I like it though. If you want to pull the "it's business" card with me then I'm going to pull the "I'm the customer" card with you. It's only fair.Flag 0 -
[quote name='TheJesusFish' timestamp='1315527030' post='45905']
Sure you have.
I haven't had a problem with the browser extension since 3.6, you have had nothing but problems. WHICH ONE IS RIGHT?!
How have they abandoned their customer base? Does your copy of 1Password still work? Have they announced their intention to kill your license?
This shows exactly how much you understand about Lion and software in general. Not to mention, 10.8 would be a PAID UPGRADE. CAN YOU IMAGINE PAYING FOR SOFTWARE YOU ALREADY BOUGHT? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE
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Let's see, I've never complained about paying for the upgrade, and I'm more than willing to do that. They've abandoned the segment of their customer base who can't use the MAS (and since they've indicated that an upcoming mobile app will require the new desktop version, yep, my software will stop working). Based on their quick cutoff of support for older browser versions, and the apparent resource issues driving those decisions, I think we all reasonably expect that 3.8 will be desupported in short order. For issues with the browser plugin, I refer you to the other forum here and the very long list of issues, complaints, bugs, and unhappy customers.
As for Lion being Vista, well, I'm hardly the only one saying that. I hope it's not, but it's certainly not worthy of the 'king of beasts' cat.Flag 0 -
[quote name='lhotka' timestamp='1315527396' post='45910']
Let's see, I've never complained about paying for the upgrade, and I'm more than willing to do that. They've abandoned the segment of their customer base who can't use the MAS (and since they've indicated that an upcoming mobile app will require the new desktop version, yep, my software will stop working). Based on their quick cutoff of support for older browser versions, and the apparent resource issues driving those decisions, I think we all reasonably expect that 3.8 will be desupported in short order. For issues with the browser plugin, I refer you to the other forum here and the very long list of issues, complaints, bugs, and unhappy customers.
As for Lion being Vista, well, I'm hardly the only one saying that. I hope it's not, but it's certainly not worthy of the 'king of beasts' cat.
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Your mobile app works right now, yes? Your copy of 3.8 works right now, yes? How do you foresee that changing? Not trolling you, I am truly curious.
And you're right, a lot of people are saying Lion is Vista. Strangely, no one is bringing up any real correlations between the two. Lion is actually pretty awesome, especially from a security standpoint.
One might even say "ferociously secure"Flag 0 -
[quote name='TheJesusFish' timestamp='1315527748' post='45919']
Your mobile app works right now, yes? Your copy of 3.8 works right now, yes? How do you foresee that changing? Not trolling you, I am truly curious.
And you're right, a lot of people are saying Lion is Vista. Strangely, no one is bringing up any real correlations between the two. Lion is actually pretty awesome, especially from a security standpoint.
One might even say "ferociously secure"
[/quote]
Yep, both work now. That will cease when Agile issues an update to the Mobile app that requires the new desktop app, at which point I'm out of luck. Granted, I'm assuming that Agile won't fork the iOS app, and continue to provide security updates to the current version. I strongly suspect that iOS 5 will trigger that change, so we're talking less than a couple of months of continued functionality. Given that resource issues are apparently driving these decisions, it's very reasonable to expect that they can't support the older versions for very long.
Did I expect to be able to run 1Password forever without paying? Nope. I did expect that I'd be able to continue to pay them though. The MAS migration prevents that for many users.
I'll grant that the nutty FF upgrade schedule has been a huge impact on them (and most other addon developers), but why bother writing code for the fancy unlock animation when the basic functions don't even work properly? I suppose they are different developers, but perhaps a different prioritization would have made more sense (make it work, then make it pretty).
Lion's security features (particularly FV2) are the only reason I've upgraded. The UI changes have been widely panned, and I suspect (hope?) that many will be quietly reversed in dot releases.Flag 0 -
[quote name='TheJesusFish' timestamp='1315527748' post='45919']
Your mobile app works right now, yes? Your copy of 3.8 works right now, yes? How do you foresee that changing? Not trolling you, I am truly curious.
[/quote]
Actually my copy of 3.8 does not work particularly well. It pastes passwords into forms but that is about all I can count on. Now, I don't think this is Agile's fault, because they have to keep up with changes in OS X and Firefox (and other browsers I don't use), but I am concerned that Agile will get tired of keeping version 3 working when they are doing their new stuff with version 4.Flag 0 -
Hey guys -- I appreciate that you are all very passionate about this issue, but we need to keep this civil. So long as we can continue to have a civil discussion without personal attacks or shouting, this thread can stay open. Lets please not jump on each other or we'll have to lock it.Flag 0
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[quote name='lhotka' timestamp='1315528271' post='45932']
Yep, both work now. That will cease when Agile issues an update to the Mobile app that requires the new desktop app, at which point I'm out of luck. Granted, I'm assuming that Agile won't fork the iOS app, and continue to provide security updates to the current version. I strongly suspect that iOS 5 will trigger that change, so we're talking less than a couple of months of continued functionality. Given that resource issues are apparently driving these decisions, it's very reasonable to expect that they can't support the older versions for very long.
Did I expect to be able to run 1Password forever without paying? Nope. I did expect that I'd be able to continue to pay them though. The MAS migration prevents that for many users.
I'll grant that the nutty FF upgrade schedule has been a huge impact on them (and most other addon developers), but why bother writing code for the fancy unlock animation when the basic functions don't even work properly? I suppose they are different developers, but perhaps a different prioritization would have made more sense (make it work, then make it pretty).
Lion's security features (particularly FV2) are the only reason I've upgraded. The UI changes have been widely panned, and I suspect (hope?) that many will be quietly reversed in dot releases.
[/quote]
I can confirm that the mobile app works perfectly fine in the beta builds of iOS 5. You needn't update it in order to continue to use it. Yes, eventually, both 3.8 and the current iOS app will stop functioning. But not for a long time. And while the MAS prevents upgrading for some users, it also opens the door to a lot more. I, for one, am really pleased it's on the app store. Installation (and reinstallation) on multiple machines is painless (and now free.) While 1password may be the best password manager on the market, it is hardly the only. If you cannot continue to use 1Password after your copies cease function, then you will find something else that will fall in line with your requirements and restrictions.
AgileBits wants to go to the App Store, that makes sense to them. They have spent the last 6+ years innovating their software, why would I say "Wait wait wait, you can't go that way."
My point is the software everyone pays for works right now. Unless something shifts violently with iOS 5, it will continue to work for years. By the time it stops working, it would have been time to pay for an upgrade. At that point, maybe your situation has changed, maybe the MAS is an option. If not, you aren't out any money, you just have to go in a different direction.Flag 0 -
[quote name='beirne' timestamp='1315528490' post='45935']
Actually my copy of 3.8 does not work particularly well. It pastes passwords into forms but that is about all I can count on. Now, I don't think this is Agile's fault, because they have to keep up with changes in OS X and Firefox (and other browsers I don't use), but I am concerned that Agile will get tired of keeping version 3 working when they are doing their new stuff with version 4.
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Is that 3.8 or the browser plugin that is causing that problem? If it's the latter, I believe Agile has said that you will continue to get updates seeing as the browser plugin is a separate entity now. They will get tired of keeping version 3, just like they did version 2, and just like they did version 1. That's the nature of software development. A day will come when version 3 stops working. I just think that day is a lot further in the future than you think.Flag 0 -
Not to detract from any legitimate concerns of others, I personally don't mind the MAS only thing and happily updated to that version this morning.
As for the pricing issue, the free upgrade to version 4 makes the Australian MAS 1Password price of AU$20.99 extremely attractive to anyone with multiple Macs. Contrast my previous 1Password licence purchases; A version 2 single user license cost US$29.95 in Aug 2007 and I paid US$34.95 for a version 3 family license upgrade in Feb 2010.Flag 0 -
First, wanted to say you guys are great and 1Password is probably my favorite program on the Mac.
I'm not totally thrilled about about the MAS only model but I understand how that would make your life easier and allow you more time for customers and to write software.
I'm probably going to wait to upgrade to Lion. Can I go ahead and buy the 3.9 license (I have a 3.8 license) and then install it when I decide to install Lion?Flag 0 -
I too am a long time user and love the program, but would like to add my voice to the requests for an Agilebits purchasable version in parallel with the MAS version. I can see the advantages of the MAS version for some, but there are disadvantages (as outlined in many posts above). Particularly for me, I won't be changing to Lion anytime soon due to its incompatibility with some of my very necessary software. So I'm locked out of future updates and the discount price (I tried to buy it anyway on the app store just to get the deal, and save the program until when I upgraded to Lion, but it wont let me even buy it on SL). Please think again about MAS exclusivity?
CheersFlag 0 -
So, 1password is available on the to MAS for $19.99 with a free upgrade to V4. So this offer is available not to just current license holders, but to new users as well?
If so, new users are paying 1/2 of what we paid with a free upgrade as well.
Is this correct?Flag 0 -
Hi there!
I'd like to raise a point I didn't find discussed in earlier answers by Agile staff.
I haven't updated to Lion, yet. I guess I'm not the only one. Maybe I'll do it sooner or later. Maybe I'll just keep Snow Leopard on this (rather aged) Mac and get Lion only for the next Mac I buy. Who knows...
I surely want to keep my beloved 1P up-to-date by installing future versions and I'm also willing to pay reasonable fees for major upgrades. I wouldn't feel offended if 1P went MAS-only. But I'd be irritated if I were charged more for upgrading when deciding to make the switch to Lion / MAS later (meaning: after the current promo).
From my understanding this will be the case. From an existing user's p.o.v., it's "Spend money now for basically the same functionality you've already purchased (+ get a major update later for free) OR spend money as soon as you actually receive some major feature upgrades in return - but then, spend some more...."
So here's my suggestion: Upon the arrival of v4, Agile Bits offers to issue refunds to switching (that is, previous non-MAS) customers about the difference of a v3.9 MAS promo purchase. Example: I'll buy v4.0 for $39.99, email you folks my iTunes ID and my proof of purchase for, say, v3.5, and Agile Bits sends $19.99 back my way (e.g. via Paypal).
What do you think of that?
(Also, very good point by Robert Mills: Existing users ("We who made you big") should in no way be subjected to worse conditions than new customers - be it today or tomorrow)Flag 0 -
[quote name='daggle' timestamp='1315529918' post='45953']
Not to detract from any legitimate concerns of others, I personally don't mind the MAS only thing and happily updated to that version this morning.
As for the pricing issue, the free upgrade to version 4 makes the Australian MAS 1Password price of AU$20.99 extremely attractive to anyone with multiple Macs. Contrast my previous 1Password licence purchases; A version 2 single user license cost US$29.95 in Aug 2007 and I paid US$34.95 for a version 3 family license upgrade in Feb 2010.
[/quote]
Good point. Last time I bought 1Password was in September of 2009 with an upgrade from version 2 to version 3. Paid $29.95
Buying the current version including a version 4 free upgrade on MAS will cost me $19.99
Seems like a good deal for me.
I've also stayed away from MAS, but just as I love the iTunes App Store I'm sure I'll get used to and love the Mac App Store.
1Password is like an insurance for me. And starting at $19.99 every two years, I don't mind at all.
Ciao!Flag 0 -
[quote name='ashcroft3000' timestamp='1315530818' post='45964']
What do you think of that?
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As mentioned in the FAQ, we really can't do rain checks on this one. Sorry. Lion really isn't that bad (it doesn't bite, I promise), and the price is right. We're encouraging everyone to upgrade to Lion. Also, the Lion only decision isn't a MAS exclusive one. If we did continue to offer updates post-3.8 through our website they would be Lion only as well.
[quote name='Robert Mills' timestamp='1315530590' post='45961']
If so, new users are paying 1/2 of what we paid with a free upgrade as well.
[/quote]
New users do luck out in the fact that they get v4 for $19.99, which we're considering an introductory promo price for the MAS version. We've had promos on v3 that had it down to that price or lower (see: bundles) before.Flag 0 -
I'm in a similar situation as ashcroft3000. I'm on Snow Leopard and have no plans upgrading to Lion. I can't stand it and don't think it will be better within the next updates. So I'm waitin for 10.8.
Are you planing to do a v4 for Snow Leopard too? Sometime you have to make a cut "this OS is no longer supported", but hey, SL isn't that old and outdated to exlude it from a new version. I would love to use new features and support you. I also have no problem to pay for a new version, but I don't wanna be forced to use Lion (I think I am not alone with this). For me this feels unfair <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />
Additional concern: I bought 1P3 bundeled for Mac and Windows. So, if you going v4, theoretically the Windows version should get bumped to v4 too (maybe some time later)? If I buy 1P now trought the MAS with a free upgrade to v4, do I have to pay for the windows version again?
Like others said, having no options to downgrade is a BIG problem, too. I so often downgraded, because the new extension had bugs or the new browser version made problems. Looking at the release cycle of Firefox in conjunction with with the no-downgradeable 1P version and the long time for updates getting reviewed in the MAS makes me feel uncomfortable <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_worried.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':S' />Flag 0 -
I'm thinking I won't be getting a refund, because I purchased 1Password with a discount (from people you sponsor), and my PayPal account doesn't receive payments.
Well, these 3 weeks were promising. Until today, when I find out that I've purchased an app with no updates. Gonna go cry in a corner.Flag 0
This discussion has been closed.