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1Password ONLY from App Store?
Comments
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[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315519029' post='45727']
All we want is to develop great software instead of spending our time keeping the servers running, dealing with payment gateways, generating licenses and resending lost receipts. I am not sure if you care but I was up in the middle of night many times this year bringing our server up, running database migrations and system updates. And the "licensing code" costed 1Password at least a couple of really great features that we didn't have time to implement.
[/quote]
I don't think anyone would complain about that, and I think eventually that most people would understand the pressures and rationale pushing AgileBits to the Apple Mac Store model.
However.... I do think AgileBits could have handled this important topic better.[list=1]
[*]As an existing customer how did I find out about this? By reading an RSS feed, not good. You have my (and all customers) email address — why not send an email advising [u]up front[/u] all your existing (loyal, which I consider myself to be as I upgrade and have pointed a number of people to 1Password) customers about this very significant change. It's annoying to find out about this second hand — as I believe you have seen from peoples' responses.
[*]I feel a bit ripped off that I, a long term established customer with a family license, have to pay to get version 3.9. And I pay extra to get exactly the same as a [u]new customer[/u] who is getting something at a price point way below what I paid for for the same functionality. The free upgrade to version 4 is irrelevant in this context because the new customer (who paid much less) still gets the same benefit as me, a long term customer, who has paid much more.
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You would have done better to charge more in the MAS ($29 or $39) for version 3.9 and told existing customers that because of limitations forced on you by Apple's MAS that they would need to 'upgrade' via MAS to get on the 3.9+ path and then give them a refund on submission of their existing old 1Password serial number.
I believe you would have to agree this has not been well handled.Flag 0 -
[quote name='emptymind' timestamp='1315543681' post='46115']If I purchase the App Store version, will two user accounts on the same machine be able to have access to their own separate 1password files in their own separate dropboxes? Additionally, can a second computer can also have an identical setup? We have two machines, but switch who is using them and keep separate logins. Thank you.[/quote]
Absolutely! The main thing to keep in mind is that Mac App Store purchases themselves are linked to an Apple ID. The data in both accounts can be sync'd with a single Dropbox account or with separate ones. Mac App Store purchases are installed in the main Applications folder, so it is accessible to all users. The same applies to other computers as well. Thanks for asking! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />Flag 0 -
[quote name='m021478' timestamp='1315544416' post='46120']1Password is an irreplaceable Mac app, in the ranks of the other heavyweight Mac apps like Evernote, Dropbox, and Quicksilver. The greatest function of the Mac App store is the consolidation of my apps into a single place, from which I can easily check for updates to these apps just by opening the App Store, and from which I can easily re-download and/or reinstall any apps on my other computers (or on future new computers) without having to scour the net to find everything. [...] Keep it up Agile Solutions! 1Password changed my computer workflow more than any other app since Quicksilver. Thanks!
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Thank you so much for the kind words! I agree, and I really love this. Very convenient! And I shudder to think of the way I used to 'manage' my data. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />Flag 0 -
Ouch. I bought 1PW about 4 months ago and have become pretty fond of it. Have been gradually moving my (many) passwords into it. But this news makes me wonder whether I'm going to regret that.
I bought a copy of Lion on its release date, figuring I'd experiment with it for a while, making a separate partition for it on one of my machines just to experiment. I think its the first Apple OS version I'm going to skip. I see absolutely nothing in it that I like. Lots of stuff that I dislike, including pretty much every change made in the user interface. Dropping Rosetta might be ok eventually, but for right now it is a show-stopper, as I use software that still requires it.
And the App store is one of the things I dislike - majorly. I brought it up for long enough to buy Lion, giving it a temporary credit card number that I only put just enough money on for that purchase. I do *NOT* trust the App store with a "live" credit card number. Heck, I get notifications all the time from Apple about bogus attempts to change my password; they even disabled one old account I had because of excessive such attempts (not by me). I think I recall the App store making it all too easy to buy things by accident with one of those horrid "1-click" systems that commit a purchase when one might just intended to look at it in more detail. I forget the details of that, but I'm not about to unblock the App Store to recheck.
I currently have Little Snitch (a utility I'm also quite fond of) set to disallow all connections to the App store.
I might add that forcing everything to go through the App store is the main reason I don't have an iPad. (And it is a contributor to why I don't have an iPhone, but it isn't the main reason in that case).Flag 0 -
[quote name='FromOZ' timestamp='1315554030' post='46182']
As an existing customer how did I find out about this? By reading an RSS feed, not good. You have my (and all customers) email address — why not send an email advising [u]up front[/u] all your existing (loyal, which I consider myself to be as I upgrade and have pointed a number of people to 1Password) customers about this very significant change. It's annoying to find out about this second hand — as I believe you have seen from peoples' responses.
[/quote]
As Ben mentioned earlier (although I don't blame anyone for not reading the entire thread -- it took me a while!) we really didn't expect it to be approved so quickly. And frankly, we really are hesitant to mass mail and make people feel like we are spamming them, especially for something controversial like this. You make an excellent point, but we don't want people to to think (more than many already do) that this is a ploy to get folks to pay again for the same thing.
[quote]
I feel a bit ripped off that I, a long term established customer with a family license, have to pay to get version 3.9. And I pay extra to get exactly the same as a [u]new customer[/u] to get something at a price point way below what I paid for for the same functionality.
[/quote]
This gets complicated, since our payment processors do not allow refunds at all after a certain period. I am deeply sorry that you feel we are trying to rip you off. Essentially, 1Password MAS is a purchase of 1Password 4, since we are offering that as a free upgrade to customers who purchase it now. You absolutely do not have to purchase anything, and your existing license will continue to be valid, and you can continue using 1Password just as you have been. I understand the feeling that a new customer has it better, but it is no different than any other sale. I can't even tell you how often I buy something and see it cheaper the next week. I suppose that is the cost of having it when I need or want it, as opposed to waiting. I have purchased 1Password 3 licenses at full price a number of times, and myself and those whom I purchased it for as gifts have had the benefit of it for years in some cases. That is worth 20$ to me. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />Flag 0 -
Only available in the Mac AppStore? What?
WHAT A BAD MOVE!
I will never want to use the app store ever in my life. I am already so much fed up by all this spyware in the iTunes Store, I don't want this stuff on my Mac.
Time to look for another password manager if I ever must move to Lion.
But hey, even Windows 7 looks more promising than a Mac since Lion came out with all those restrictions, forced registration and the collection of personal data like mad.
And I say that as a always loyal Mac user since 21 years!
I don't like Apple any more and since today, I am not sure about Agilebits.Flag 0 -
[quote name='brenty' timestamp='1315554989' post='46190']
we really are hesitant to mass mail and make people feel like we are spamming them, especially for something controversial like this. You make an excellent point, but we don't want people to to think (more than many already do) that this is a ploy to get folks to pay again for the same thing.
[/quote]
C'mon Brent... I have had over the years a number of marketing emails from Agile Web Solutions/AgileBits advising about 1Password for iPhone (bought it) and iPad (bought it). I think you guys could have done a 'heads up' email to existing customers. You obviously would have realised this would have been a 'hot' topic. People don't like nasty surprises.
[quote name='brenty' timestamp='1315554989' post='46190']
This gets complicated, since our payment processors do not allow refunds at all after a certain period. I am deeply sorry that you feel we are trying to rip you off. Essentially, 1Password MAS is a purchase of 1Password 4, since we are offering that as a free upgrade to customers who purchase it now. You absolutely do not have to purchase anything, and your existing license will continue to be valid, and you can continue using 1Password just as you have been. I understand the feeling that a new customer has it better, but it is no different than any other sale. I can't even tell you how often I buy something and see it cheaper the next week. I suppose that is the cost of having it when I need or want it, as opposed to waiting. I have purchased 1Password 3 licenses at full price a number of times, and myself and those whom I purchased it for as gifts have had the benefit of it for years in some cases. That is worth 20$ to me. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
[/quote]
I'm not saying that AgileBits is [u]maliciously[/u] trying to take money from me — far from it — and I can understand that it will be a relief for you to have all the payment handling etc.be done by Apple. What I am saying is that I am an existing customer who has paid a lot and someone new comes along and pays less. And worse, to support him (new customer via MAS) I have to pay again for something I already have. And don't say I don't have to buy it, because I do if I want to stay up to date with 1Password given that, going forward, it will only be available via MAS.
I wasn't saying a refund of my [u]old purchase[/u] but the [u]new purchase[/u] from the MAS (that I'm forced to buy) — refund that.Flag 0 -
[quote name='Paranoid' timestamp='1315556139' post='46200']
Only available in the Mac AppStore? What?
WHAT A BAD MOVE!
I will never want to use the app store ever in my life. I am already so much fed up by all this spyware in the iTunes Store, I don't want this stuff on my Mac.
Time to look for another password manager if I ever must move to Lion.
But hey, even Windows 7 looks more promising than a Mac since Lion came out with all those restrictions, forced registration and the collection of personal data like mad.
And I say that as a always loyal Mac user since 21 years!
I don't like Apple any more and since today, I am not sure about Agilebits.
[/quote]
I think the tone of your post reflects your username. You are making unsubstantiated statements.
Good luck with Windoze.Flag 0 -
[quote name='Paranoid' timestamp='1315557767' post='46213']
Please don't get me wrong. I will never move to Windows while there is any Linux out there.
I am paranoid but I am not suicidal. Also, Microsoft is as evil as Apple.
[/quote]
Good luck running a Linux desktop, which one?? ha ha. I am reminded of a saying from the early days of personal computing "standards are good, that's why there are so many of them". Linux as a desktop OS is a disaster and will never go anywhere while it is so fragmented (and this is from someone who uses Linux daily).
If you think Apple is as evil as Microsoft then you better change your nickname/handle from "Paranoid" to "Deluded" <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/emoticon-0136-giggle.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='(giggle)' />Flag 0 -
Guys, I left a lot of comments when it came to developers with quick update cycles. I usually mentioned you. But now, I really can't understand your decision:
- Why am I testing beta versions, when this distribution channel will be replaced by a system where even crucial updates takes a week to be released?
- Why do I need to start this buggy and slow MAS for future updates? I don't want this distribution channel but developers force me to use it if I want updates, especially security updates.
- Why should I decide myself for a version I can't give a try before buying? (Especially if it is as buggy as several threads here suggest).
Finally: Why don't have popular developers the balls to say "no" to the limitations of this plattform instead of adapting themselves to it? Oh yes, all these new customers. To me, it is "unfriendly" to give existing customers the possibility to update at a reduced price – before the next version has seen a public beta. I upgrade software after testing, not after its announcement. Give your long-term customers (!!!) the possibility to test and upgrade then – still at a reduced price (this is how upgrades work!).
BTW: Are there any features that won't be included in the "new" version anymore, due to Apple's restrictions?Flag 0 -
What will happen when 1Password 5.0 will come? How will you price it? Everyone knows MAS doesn't offer priced upgrades (and we can't hope Apple will offer it one day), so what will you do? You won't offer a free upgrade, you will have to sell it as a new separate product, but how will you price it?
- full price for everyone?
- sell it with a 50% discount for few days/weeks?
- lower the price to 19.99$ forever?Flag 0 -
[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315519029' post='45727']
So we are not people anymore, I guess. Thanks.
All we want is to develop great software instead of spending our time keeping the servers running, dealing with payment gateways, generating licenses and resending lost receipts. I am not sure if you care but I was up in the middle of night many times this year bringing our server up, running database migrations and system updates. And the "licensing code" costed 1Password at least a couple of really great features that we didn't have time to implement.
[/quote]
Agree, I totally understand, people seldom see many work behind scene. So just keep going forward as what you planned, focus on the product itself and keep bringing us more surprise in the future.Flag 0 -
I see that on the mac app store the version of 1password is 3.9, while the version on my desktop which I bought from agilesoft states it's the currrent version at 3.8.5. Is there a difference, if so what is it? And is going to MAS the only way to get the current version of 3? (I know it will be for 4). Do I need to buy 1password again in order to get the current version? Also, I am a poor college student, and I bought the current 1Password on a student discount. Will that discount continue to be offered for institutions of higher education?
OK, I admit that because I just woke up too early my brain is foggy and I'm having a hard time understating exactly what agilesoft is saying about the exclusive switchover to mac and the many issues surrounding it, so could someone give me the Cliff notes version? There were so many pages, I couldn't get through it all. thanks.Flag 0 -
Well well, what a thread <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' />
Being an Apple user and -evangelist since 1986 and 1Password family-pack user I would like to add my comment.
I am not fond of the MAS, perhaps I am old school but I still prefer the "Sparkle" way of updating my software. When the software is okay, MAS will fit, when there are bugs it doesn't due to the approval process.
Last but not least a beta-test program for MAS apps is a different cup of tea <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_no.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='(n)' />
Okay, as AgileBits informed us that 1Password 4 will be MAS only, I made a choice of buying 1Password 3 again, knowing that it is a great deal considering the price for a free upgrade and having 1Password on all my Macs <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
Current Snow Leopard users can either decide to switch to Lion or stay at SL. its 2011 and we are in a fast world and I want to go forward. Sure Lion has it bugs, but SL has them too. So....updating to Lion was obvious for me.
At the end it is important that AgileBits will satisfy current SL users with ongoing support (and updates).
At the moment 3.9 doesn't feel too much as a step forward considering the features, bugs with the extensions and limitations due to the sandbox architecture but time should learn if I made the right decision.
That said let me remind Agilebits that they have an iOS app which need updates too. I hope they finally bring syncing of software (license) app icons which bring it in par with Wallet. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skype_yes.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='(y)' />Flag 0 -
[quote name='brenty' timestamp='1315548690' post='46148']
Not so fast, Mark! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
You don't need to receive payments to get a refund, and I have done just that! If you prefer the Mac App Store, you can use the money to make your purchase there. Either way, we will be supporting the non-MAS version as well. As I mentioned earlier, we still support 1Password 2 on Tiger! <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
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Wow, thanks guys. I've stopped crying in the corner and gonna purchase the MAS version. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />Flag 0 -
[quote name='roustem' timestamp='1315525400' post='45871']
We'll do our best. I personally worked for 12+ hours a day without weekends since June. I am not sure how long I can last like this though, this is the main reason we are trying to reduce the complexity where we can.
[/quote]
Which might explain the problems that arose with the new extensions and the current MAS-only thing. You guys really handled the extensions thing very badly from a communications point of view. There was hardly any good communication where you summed up the advantages and disadvantages of the new extensions and why you guys choose to go down the path of the new extensions. The only communication there was were some forum posts from Agile people in various topics. The amount of topics was enormous and some of you even posted about not being able to keep up with it.
The problem with the MAS-only thing is that it is exactly the same situation all over again. That tells me you didn't learn your communication lesson from last time so I absolutely do not feel sorry for you guys getting flooded with all the rants. If I would you probably still wouldn't learn to communicate properly (iow: I want you to learn). It might be a good idea to hire somebody who knows how to communicate things like decisions to customers. Proper communication prevents getting flooded with rants because you tell people the advantages and disadvantages but also why you choose something. It doesn't have to be a very big and long story, just to the point so people understand. The problem now is that the advantages/disadvantages and why is now a post somewhere hidden inside a rather large topic filled with rants. It is not on your blog where it should be! This means that you will get a shitload of other topics of rants about the MAS-only thing where you have to reply with the same response. No wonder you get working days of 12 hrs. Work smart, not hard: put these kind of things on your blog and write it to get people to understand the decision.
For the MAS-only thing I have my doubts. I know that in the USA it is normal to have loans, be in debt, etc. After all those were the main reasons why the economy worldwide exploded, why China owns the USA (literally) and why the USA is now in serious payments trouble. Outside the USA things like loans, creditcards, etc. are very unpopular, most people will not have a CC at all. When asking if they want one you'll get a big NO. If you want to buy something on the MAS you need a CC, a Click 'n Buy account or some kind of MAS coupon. Click 'n Buy has been the main subject of several nasty security things as well as payment screw ups making them very unpopular worldwide. The coupons are hard to get in some countries. All in all that leaves some people with absolutely no options to pay for something in the MAS rendering the MAS quite useless for them. If Apple were to add paypal and local things such as iDeal (used in the Netherlands and a very popular system for online payments...in reality it is just a very easy way of online wiretransfer) than they would overcome this problem with the MAS (and their own Online Apple Store as well). As people already mentioned there are some other disadvantages to the MAS currently such as business accounts (easy if you have a large business but what about the smaller ones with only 1 employee or a little bit more?) and other licensing problems. Another big problem is the CRL-bug. Some people have a very very slow MAS (it is unworkable) which is caused by CRL lookups. You can disable CRL in Keychain Access but this will also disable CRL for everything else! In regard of the DigiNotar issues that is a very very bad move. Those people will not use the MAS because it is unworkable slow and that is quite a big number of people. Apple needs to address this asap imo. All these things tell me that currently the MAS isn't a very good place to sell software. This might improve though. The only reason to use the MAS would be by popular demand of customers and I do think that this is high. However, the aforementioned problems will make a MAS-only release not a very smart thing to do. They are simply too many people worldwide that will have trouble with it. It is not that userfriendly at all and I'd wait before going MAS-only. Maybe a transition period is a good idea. People might need to get used to the idea that 1Password is in the MAS.
As for updates: the application and extensions are now separate updates. Both will be downloaded separately and can be downloaded separately (you can opt to download the file instead of having it install directly in the webbrowser; try option clicking the link for example). You can use backup software like Time Machine so you can undo a certain update. The updates through the MAS are NOT delta updates, they are simply the entire application which you can clearly tell by the amount of data that will be downloaded (compare that to the filesize of the application, it is in the app info in the MAS). The delta update thing is for iOS5 (and OS X itself like with 10.6.8, 10.7.1) and people seriously need to stop confusing the different products! The downloaded product is a standard .app as it has been for many years now. You can move the app to a backup, different machine, etc. The only problem is with updating, if the app is not in /Applications things can go wrong. In Lion you can use Launchpad to manage the apps, in previous OS X versions you need to set up a folder and put aliases of the apps in them. The problem about updating and rolling back presented by many posters here are in fact no problems at all, only misunderstandings of the posters. Although in some cases there certainly are problems with it.
As for update cycles: you now get an update when it's done, in the MAS you get it when it's done. There is no difference in that. You can do a lot with the release management. Beta versions will not be allowed in the MAS, Apple tells developers to user their own infrastructure for that. The same goes for trial versions. The MAS will not get in the way of beta and trial versions (another big misconception). Developers can take use of this. If you want faster updates you can opt for a certain beta version. If you want stable updates you can stick with the MAS version. The only time when this becomes a problem is when there is a security issue. The MAS doesn't seem to be fast enough for that. You could then issue a special edition via your own infrastructure but user will have to actively look for that one (following Agile via twitter is one very handy way of doing that, the blog would be another).
All in all I think it is best to have a MAS and non-MAS version. Lots of developers already do that. They don't have differences between those versions regarding functionality, features. Later on when the MAS is more common and the current problems/restrictions are overcome a MAS-only version could be done. Just be sure to have some kind of transition period so people can get used to the idea and Agile itself can get some experience with the MAS. Also, do something about the communication about these things towards the customers. Currently this is nearly non-existent and is causing all sorts of problems and a higher workload (good communication is also prevention!).Flag 0 -
You know what's funny? I just tried to use 1Password to login to this forum, and it didn't work. It won't autosave, so I had to do it manually. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
Anyway...
It sounds like a lot of people are upset at being forced to upgrade RIGHT NOW in order to get the discount price. Normally you don't pay for an upgrade until the product is released, so you know what you're getting and can decide if you want to pay. If the discount you are offering expires before version 4 is released, then you are in effect asking people to pay a blind upgrade fee for an unknown product. This makes people mad.
Does the MAS support upgrade pricing? If not, then that's going to be a customer support nightmare for all future upgrades as well.
If the MAS does support upgrades, then it would have been best for all concerned if you had waited until version 4 was ready to make it available on the MAS. At that point you could have offered discount pricing to everyone for a limited time (same as you are doing now), which would allow you to attract new users and get current users to upgrade at a reduced cost. I suppose some current users would still be upset about newbies getting the same price, but some people just can't be happy about getting a discount.Flag 0 -
That perfectly sums up most of the story for me, drizzler! Thanks!
The second thing I don't get is why v3.9 and v4 shall be Lion-only. Agile Bits could switch to MAS distribution and a unified code base without locking out SL users.
[quote]At the end it is important that AgileBits will satisfy current SL users with ongoing support (and updates).[/quote]
Actually, there have been contradictory statements on this by AgileBits staff. While brenty talked of ongoing support for SL users, bwoodruff stated that *ALL* future updates will be Lion-only:
[quote]Also, the Lion only decision isn't a MAS exclusive one. If we did continue to offer updates post-3.8 through our website they would be Lion only as well.[/quote]Flag 0 -
[quote name='breatleb' timestamp='1315564426' post='46251']
I see that on the mac app store the version of 1password is 3.9, while the version on my desktop which I bought from agilesoft states it's the currrent version at 3.8.5. Is there a difference, if so what is it? And is going to MAS the only way to get the current version of 3? (I know it will be for 4). Do I need to buy 1password again in order to get the current version? Also, I am a poor college student, and I bought the current 1Password on a student discount. Will that discount continue to be offered for institutions of higher education?
[/quote]
I understand the grogginess. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> All of these questions and more are answered in the FAQ at the top of this forum. Except: no, I'm not aware of educational pricing in the MAS except for possibly when purchased by educational institutions. This would be a MAS question though, not a 1Password question. If MAS offers it, so will we. We're still getting the hang of the MAS as well, so I don't have all the answers yet.
Short answers: version 3 is still available from our site. Differences between 3.8 and 3.9 are minor, may may not even really notice them. You don't have to buy anything you don't want to. The MAS version is essentially just to get you v4 at the upgrade price.
[quote name='dian' timestamp='1315562918' post='46239']
Agree, I totally understand, people seldom see many work behind scene. So just keep going forward as what you planned, focus on the product itself and keep bringing us more surprise in the future.
[/quote]
Thanks dian! You rock.
[quote name='dentonsk' timestamp='1315562204' post='46237']
What will happen when 1Password 5.0 will come? How will you price it? Everyone knows MAS doesn't offer priced upgrades (and we can't hope Apple will offer it one day), so what will you do? You won't offer a free upgrade, you will have to sell it as a new separate product, but how will you price it?
- full price for everyone?
- sell it with a 50% discount for few days/weeks?
- lower the price to 19.99$ forever?
[/quote]
Woah, hold up there. We aren't even at version 4 yet. No decisions have been made regarding version 5.
[quote name='pof' timestamp='1315561510' post='46227']
BTW: Are there any features that won't be included in the "new" version anymore, due to Apple's restrictions?
[/quote]
This is addressed in the FAQ in the first post in this forum.
[quote name='FromOZ' timestamp='1315556381' post='46203']
I wasn't saying a refund of my [u]old purchase[/u] but the [u]new purchase[/u] from the MAS (that I'm forced to buy) — refund that.
[/quote]
Unfortunately we [b]can not[/b] refund purchases from the Mac App Store. Apple just doesn't give us a way to do that. All refunds have to come through them, and their refund policy has been notoriously strict (only giving refunds in limited circumstances). We aren't forcing anyone to buy anything. 1Password will continue to work as it has (unless, of course, you change something that breaks it). No one is forced to upgrade to 1Password 4, which is essentially what the MAS option is: an upgrade to 1Password 4.
[quote name='emptymind' timestamp='1315543681' post='46115']
If I purchase the App Store version, will two user accounts on the same machine be able to have access to their own separate 1password files in their own separate dropboxes?
Additionally, can a second computer can also have an identical setup? We have two machines, but switch who is using them and keep separate logins.
Thank you.
[/quote]
Yes. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
[quote name='caesar113' timestamp='1315542630' post='46096']
I can empathize with your situation, but the fact of the matter is that if you are understaffed for your current situation, then you need to hire more people until you create an environment that can be handled by the current staff. There is a reason that temp agencies, interns, and contractors exist. AgileBit's C level employees are making some very serious business blunders here. Being an engineer, I hate to say this, but this is what happens when an engineer runs a company rather than hiring an experienced business person.
[/quote]
We don't have C level employees. We're a very small company and run a very flat model.
[quote name='poof' timestamp='1315567287' post='46270']
There was hardly any good communication
[/quote]
A lot of this is due to varying expectations. Some on our part, some on Apple's, and some on the part of our customers. We'll see what we can do about better notifying folks of such things.
[quote name='poof' timestamp='1315567287' post='46270']
For the MAS-only thing I have my doubts. I know that in the USA it is normal to have loans, be in debt, etc. After all those were the main reasons why the economy worldwide exploded, why China owns the USA (literally) and why the USA is now in serious payments trouble. Outside the USA things like loans, creditcards, etc. are very unpopular, most people will not have a CC at all. When asking if they want one you'll get a big NO. If you want to buy something on the MAS you need a CC, a Click 'n Buy account or some kind of MAS coupon. Click 'n Buy has been the main subject of several nasty security things as well as payment screw ups making them very unpopular worldwide.[/quote]
Similar, and possibly even greater, restrictions exist in our own store. We accept only major credit cards and PayPal. Many people hate PayPal and don't have a credit card. There is only so much we can do about that. As Roustem mentioned, we really just want to create awesome software, not deal with payment processors. We're going to leave that up to Apple.
[quote name='poof' timestamp='1315567287' post='46270']
All in all I think it is best to have a MAS and non-MAS version. Lots of developers already do that. They don't have differences between those versions regarding functionality, features. Later on when the MAS is more common and the current problems/restrictions are overcome a MAS-only version could be done. Just be sure to have some kind of transition period so people can get used to the idea and Agile itself can get some experience with the MAS. Also, do something about the communication about these things towards the customers. Currently this is nearly non-existent and is causing all sorts of problems and a higher workload (good communication is also prevention!).
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We appreciate the feedback. Really. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />Flag 0 -
[quote name='drizzler' timestamp='1315568309' post='46278']
Does the MAS support upgrade pricing?
[/quote]
As far as I'm aware, it does not.
[quote name='drizzler' timestamp='1315568309' post='46278']
If the MAS does support upgrades, then it would have been best for all concerned if you had waited until version 4 was ready to make it available on the MAS.
[/quote]
I don't know how much I can disclose here, but I can say that we needed to make this release when we did in order to get where we got. Sorry if that's cryptic. Basically, we would have been okay with waiting as well, but needed to push things along for non-technical reasons.Flag 0 -
[quote name='ashcroft3000' timestamp='1315570218' post='46285']
Actually, there have been contradictory statements on this by AgileBits staff. While brenty talked of ongoing support for SL users, bwoodruff stated that *ALL* future updates will be Lion-only:
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These two things are not mutually exclusive. We will continue to support SL users (updated extensions, continued customer support, etc) and as far as I'm aware all new releases of 1Password (post-3.8 ) will be Lion only. There may be more 3.8.x releases that would be available to SL users.Flag 0 -
I am thoroughly confused! I have just upgraded to 3.8.5 and now I read that for future Mac upgrades, I need to switch to 1Password 3.9, through the App Store at a cost of £13.99. The only difference seems to be that I can view 1Password full screen (why would I want to do that?) and a number of restrictions imposed by Apple, which may or may not be to my advantage, and I will not know until I move!
If I pay the £13.99, will the App Store version, utilise my current details. Will it simply replace 3.8.5 as I do not want to find that I have got to replace everything. Downloading from the App Store, is usually, simplicity itself, but 1Password is so important that I do not want any problems.
Is their anyone on the forum, who has made the change and could allay my fears?Flag 0 -
[quote name='billbir' timestamp='1315571888' post='46300']
I am thoroughly confused! I have just upgraded to 3.8.5 and now I read that for future Mac upgrades, I need to switch to 1Password 3.9, through the App Store at a cost of £13.99. The only difference seems to be that I can view 1Password full screen (why would I want to do that?) and a number of restrictions imposed by Apple, which may or may not be to my advantage, and I will not know until I move!
If I pay the £13.99, will the App Store version, utilise my current details. Will it simply replace 3.8.5 as I do not want to find that I have got to replace everything. Downloading from the App Store, is usually, simplicity itself, but 1Password is so important that I do not want any problems.
Is their anyone on the forum, who has made the change and could allay my fears?
[/quote]
Hi billbir,
First please note that 1Password 3.9 (and all MAS releases) are and will be Lion only. If you don't have Lion, you don't have to do anything. In fact, you don't have to do anything anyway. But if you want to upgrade to v4 for the current discounted price, this is the way to do it.
Second, make sure you've read the FAQ: [url="http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/8068-official-answers-1password-and-the-mac-app-store/"]OFFICIAL ANSWERS: 1Password and the Mac App Store[/url]. Especially the first point should help relieve your fears. I followed this exact procedure to upgrade my own copy of 1Password (which, as you might imagine, is critical)!
As always, it doesn't hurt to make sure you have good backups of everything using Time Machine or otherwise.Flag 0 -
Without upgrade pricing at the MAS, how will you handle each subsequent paid upgrade? I guess current users will have to pay the same full purchase price as new users? Ouch. Like I said, that's going to be a customer support nightmare.
It sounds like the MAS also eliminates in-app upgrades, optional beta upgrades, and roll-backs to previous versions. And there's always the concern about Apple's mysterious app acceptance policy, and potential delays for critical updates. Many people don't like a third party getting between them and their favorite software.
I hope you can appreciate why so many people here are voicing their concerns. That's a whole lot of changes to hit us with at once.
I think if you could just do one thing: Extend the discounted upgrade pricing until version 4 is out. That would go a long way toward alleviating a lot of people's concerns.
(And I still can't get 1P to log me in to this forum...)Flag 0 -
One other point about the MAS is that it's not available in all countries. When I go back to Papua New Guinea next year, I may not be able to use the MAS at all, since it's not currently available. That would likely mean that I could only get updates to software by leaving the country and going to Australia or some other country and doing it there. At this point I'm not sure what will be best to do, so I'm going to wait a while before jumping in.Flag 0
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[quote name='drizzler' timestamp='1315572172' post='46304']
Without upgrade pricing at the MAS, how will you handle each subsequent paid upgrade? I guess current users will have to pay the same full purchase price as new users? Ouch. Like I said, that's going to be a customer support nightmare.
It sounds like the MAS also eliminates in-app upgrades, optional beta upgrades, and roll-backs to previous versions. And there's always the concern about Apple's mysterious app acceptance policy, and potential delays for critical updates. Many people don't like a third party getting between them and their favorite software.
I hope you can appreciate why so many people here are voicing their concerns. That's a whole lot of changes to hit us with at once.
I think if you could just do one thing: Extend the discounted upgrade pricing until version 4 is out. That would go a long way toward alleviating a lot of people's concerns.
[/quote]
[url="http://forum.agilebits.com/index.php?/topic/8130-so-how-will-1password-upgrades-work/"]So how will 1Password upgrades work?[/url] <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
[quote]
(And I still can't get 1P to log me in to this forum...)
[/quote]
Please try saving the login manually like this:
1. Enter your username and password, but DO NOT submit the form.
2. Click the 1Password button in your browser's toolbar, and select the "+" button in the upper right hand corner.
3. Change the title and make any notes (if desired).
4. Click the Save button in the upper right hand corner.Flag 0 -
I love the MAS for many reasons. However, with an application like 1Password, I think it's a poor fit. Here's why:
[list=1]
[*]More restrictions on the Application. For example you must adhere to the new sandboxing rule. That has already broken Dropbox syncing unless Dropbox is located in the user folder only.
[*]Patches are dependent on the review cycle. With an application like 1Password, I want critical bugs fixed ASAP, not after it trickles through the review process.
[/list]
Those are two pretty significant drawbacks. I'm not saying that the MAS is not great for some people. But a great many of your users already know how to purchase, download and install outside of the MAS. Add a premium product for them that is updated more regularly, and has more features that are not restricted by MAS rules.
It's a pain to have two different products with two different version numbers, I'm sure. But you're creating a pain point for your consumers that I anticipate will hurt your reputation and the product. I think a better alternative would be to release a different product on MAS with the same intentions.Flag 0
This discussion has been closed.