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1Password ONLY from App Store?
Comments
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[quote name='makeintosh' timestamp='1315667982' post='47154']
I agree. I've been through several OSX upgrades and Lion is by far the buggiest of all versions. iPassword 3.9 also seems the buggiest of all versions. For now, it is relegated to my test Mac. In my opinion, AgileBits will eventually realize that MAS only is a bad corporate decision and change it.
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1PW 3.9 works fine for me as does 10.7.1. Perhaps it is your setup that has bugs in it since the masses running Lion are happy about it and the reviews of 1PW on the MAS are overwhelming positive
[quote name='Soloo' timestamp='1315674217' post='47229']
Also, 1Password reminded me about available updates just when i'm using the application. Now i have to start the MAS itself to see if there is an update available.
Will there be any kind of Beta program in the future or has this just been cancelled?
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In Lion apps in the Mac App Store can provide notifications about updates, or whatever the developer wants to say without the app needing to be open. Also the OS periodically polls the store for updates even if you haven't opened the app and if something is new you'll see a red badge denoting the amount of apps that need updates on the MAS icon.
[quote name='Soloo' timestamp='1315675450' post='47252']
For sure, you get a lot of reactions on this. But later on i think the activity will decrease. Until now the forum posts could impact the future and the development of 1Password directly. I have a lot of software on my machines but never found a company that works that much close with the basis as you did. In the future each feature request has to be compared to match Apple's rules. At the end i believe this will decrease the amount of innovation in 1Password.
Don't misunderstand me, i still like 1Password, but i'm a little bit worried about the future of this application. MAS may be good for the normal user who wants to have a simple install, no thinking about where to place the data and any updates. But many advanced users want to use features that Apple disallows at all. In my mind it's not a good idea to wait until the MAS improves and will allow you more.
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The MAS is only a software distribution system. These forums will continue to be an excellent way of communicating with Agile and requesting new features or support. The MAS doesn't fundamentally change anything but the mechanism for handling the financial transaction and delivery of the app. Everything else remains the same save for a few features that needed to be culled or modified.Flag 0 -
[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1315676646' post='47267']
The MAS is only a software distribution system. These forums will continue to be an excellent way of communicating with Agile and requesting new features or support. The MAS doesn't fundamentally change anything but the mechanism for handling the financial transaction and delivery of the app. Everything else remains the same save for a few features that needed to be culled or modified.
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I can only partially agree. Sure, the MAS is another way to distribute software and get the money for it. I fully agree on this point. But as far as i know the MAS doesn't allow beta applications. So i can't go to the Agile guys and expect a fix within a short time. Until now, i could report an issue and they where mostly quite fast, bringing a beta to fix that issue. This ability goes away with the MAS distribution. In the worst case, the application becomes unusable due to a bug and a fix may be in the MAS one week later, depending on how fast Apple is approving the update.
Also you had the ability to save the keychain where you want. With the MAS version you have only the Documents folder (as far as i understand, just stupid, the keychain is not a document) or the Dropbox. Some people built up their own system where to store what, now they have to change that only because Apple doesn't allow?Flag 0 -
[quote name='leicaman' timestamp='1315505900' post='45495']
Well, I'll add my 2 cents.
1: I cannot use it at work legally, because the only way to get it is the Mac App Store. And the Mac App Store specifically prohibits my accessing the Mac App Store in enterprise environments. Did you think about that?
2: There are limitations on how to sync the data. Lots of enterprise situations block such connections such as Dropbox, iDisk (soon to be defunct anway) and WebDAV or FTP situations.
3: It's just doesn't make any sense that you're doing it exclusively. Lots of other companies allow both the Mac App Store and they also provide access to the files for download for those people who either choose to do it that way, or who cannot legally use the Mac App Store.
4: Updates. And all the other restrictions that the MAS uses. I get a lot of apps from the MAS. But 1Password and that kind of app I much prefer to get on the Internet.
This really does restrict access to the application in an artificial way. And it really makes me wonder about the long-term viability of the Mac platform if this kind of thing becomes more common. It reduces choice, it makes things cost more in some cases and you even have to bend over backwards to avoid offending people who bought the application recently. I have been updating immediately when given the chance for several years. I've been a big booster of 1Password, telling people that this is the #1 utility that will make their online lives better. Now I'm beginning to rethink whether I should continue to be a vocal supporter, and start looking for a more flexible replacement.
This is just such a bad decision on AgileBits part in the long run that it's really disappointing.
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If you cannot use this at your work legally then it shouldn't be a problem how you acquire the program for use outside of work. That is, of course, as long as you don't have intensions to break your company's policy regarding said software.
I see the MAS only version as a problem for those that do not want to, as you say, "legally" use the software.Flag 0 -
[quote name='Soloo' timestamp='1315678801' post='47294']
I can only partially agree. Sure, the MAS is another way to distribute software and get the money for it. I fully agree on this point. But as far as i know the MAS doesn't allow beta applications. So i can't go to the Agile guys and expect a fix within a short time. Until now, i could report an issue and they where mostly quite fast, bringing a beta to fix that issue. This ability goes away with the MAS distribution. In the worst case, the application becomes unusable due to a bug and a fix may be in the MAS one week later, depending on how fast Apple is approving the update.
Also you had the ability to save the keychain where you want. With the MAS version you have only the Documents folder (as far as i understand, just stupid, the keychain is not a document) or the Dropbox. Some people built up their own system where to store what, now they have to change that only because Apple doesn't allow?
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Most of the fixing at this point is happening within the extensions, which are not subject to Apple's approval process. We can still beta test and approve those ourselves without intervention from Apple.
The default location for the keychain is in the ~/Library folder, which most people will never see after upgrading to Lion. Really there is very little reason to ever see your keychain, unless you are trying to move it to Dropbox. This is now possible through the application's interface, so you don't have to move files around the file system yourself.
The benefit of this is enhanced security.Flag 0 -
[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315679281' post='47301']
The default location for the keychain is in the ~/Library folder, which most people will never see after upgrading to Lion. Really there is very little reason to ever see your keychain, unless you are trying to move it to Dropbox. This is now possible through the application's interface, so you don't have to move files around the file system yourself.
The benefit of this is enhanced security.
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I use Dropbox and have the keychaing stored in a directory called Interchange. As i understand in some other posts this location will also not be possible anymore, meaning i have to edit some configuration files to get 1Password back to my original location. I don't want to have any files stored in the root of my Dropbox, there are only directories. For sure i can edit configuration files and also know how to use editors like vi. But to be honest, in 3.8.x i'm using that's simply possible from the application itself. Another thing turned worse for advanced users.
I understand your intention to keep the application as simple as possible. But please keep in mind that in many cases, the advanced user are suggesting others to use 1Password. So keep up good work and don't forget about people who want to have control where they store their data.Flag 0 -
[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315668592' post='47168']
1Password 4 was always going to be a paid upgrade, per our upgrade policy:
[url="http://help.agilebits.com/1Password3/how_many_licenses.html"]http://help.agilebit...y_licenses.html[/url]
Purchasing the pre-order now from the MAS is a great way to get a substantial discount on the upgrade to v4. As explained in the above link though, it is not required. You are certainly free to continue using 3.8 indefinitely.
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So that link contains "We will continue this tradition of generosity and paid license holders will always get all point updates for free." So I am currently on 3.8.5 and 3.9 is in the MAS. One of the features in 3.9 is full screen for Lion. So when do I get that feature for free through my licensed version from your website ?Flag 0 -
[quote name='coachdriver' timestamp='1315683368' post='47356']
So that link contains "We will continue this tradition of generosity and paid license holders will always get all point updates for free." So I am currently on 3.8.5 and 3.9 is in the MAS. One of the features in 3.9 is full screen for Lion. So when do I get that feature for free through my licensed version from your website ?
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If you buy 3.9 now at the reduced price you will get V4 for free. You just pay "earlier" for the new version.Flag 0 -
[quote name='Soloo' timestamp='1315683685' post='47364']
If you buy 3.9 now at the reduced price you will get V4 for free. You just pay "earlier" for the new version.
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But that isn't what I'm asking. There is a feature for LION full screen in 3.9. This is a point release which in the link quoted says I would receive for free. so when does this feature come to 3.8.5 and above for 1Password purchased outside of the MAS ? Or is this feature never coming to the version outside of the MAS ? If so what other features will NOT come in the point releases to version 3 ?Flag 0 -
[quote name='coachdriver' timestamp='1315684974' post='47384']
But that isn't what I'm asking. There is a feature for LION full screen in 3.9. This is a point release which in the link quoted says I would receive for free. so when does this feature come to 3.8.5 and above for 1Password purchased outside of the MAS ? Or is this feature never coming to the version outside of the MAS ? If so what other features will NOT come in the point releases to version 3 ?
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We do plan on bringing full screen mode to 3.8.xFlag 0 -
I just read most of this thread after having been using a trial version of 3.8 for a week or so and seriously considering buying such a great application. I've been very impressed with it so far and think that a lot of the complaining regarding the App Store in the forum is completely overblown. The fact that the founders have been so responsive to even the most dismissive customers tells me that they really do care and I fully expect that the product will continue to improve. I just purchased 3.9 through the App Store and look forward to the free upgrade to v4. I'm happy to have saved 50% on the purchase that I was fully planning to pay more for with a lot of convenience.
Thanks guys for writing great software at a fair price!Flag 0 -
[quote name='makeintosh' timestamp='1315667982' post='47154']
In my opinion, AgileBits will eventually realize that MAS only is a bad corporate decision and change it.
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Thank you. This is exactly what I was trying to say in my earlier reply in this thread that quickly got buried. No decision is final and nothing is written in stone. We believe that making 1P4 MAS-only is the best thing for us and our customers going forward. If that turns out not to be the case, we can revisit this decision.
Please note that we could not have done the opposite: we couldn't state that 1P4 would be available on our site and the MAS and then change our minds later because there is no way to migrate user licenses from our store into Apple's.Flag 0 -
[quote name='dteare' timestamp='1315689594' post='47447']
We believe that making 1P4 MAS-only is the best thing for us and our customers going forward. I
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For Agilebits, absolutely, for your customers, no, not really. Not all of them.
Honestly, I'm less concerned with the MAS aspect than I am with you dropping Snow Leopard support so soon after Lions release. Seems so narrow minded.Flag 0 -
[quote name='Mike B' timestamp='1315703863' post='47536']
For Agilebits, absolutely, for your customers, no, not really. Not all of them.
Honestly, I'm less concerned with the MAS aspect than I am with you dropping Snow Leopard support so soon after Lions release. Seems so narrow minded.
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This entire decision... or lack there of... seems rather narrow minded... or more accurately, rather thoughtless.Flag 0 -
Dave, please reconsider this descision. It's not good - at all.Flag 0
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[quote name='Mike B' timestamp='1315703863' post='47536']
For Agilebits, absolutely, for your customers, no, not really. Not all of them.
Honestly, I'm less concerned with the MAS aspect than I am with you [b]dropping Snow Leopard support[/b] so soon after Lions release. Seems so narrow minded.
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I'm quite certain Agilebits is [b]Not[/b] dropping Snow Leopard support, as well as continuing support for 1P 3.8.x. I think it's been said several times in this thread and also in other threads.
And yes, I've read all 350 posts in this thread. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' /> I've been reading all this because I don't intend to update to Lion anytime in the foreseeable future and I have to know what is my future with 1Password. I can't imagine doing without it.Flag 0 -
[quote name='Mike B' timestamp='1315703863' post='47536']
For Agilebits, absolutely, for your customers, no, not really. Not all of them.
Honestly, I'm less concerned with the MAS aspect than I am with you dropping Snow Leopard support so soon after Lions release. Seems so narrow minded.
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I'm finding that many developers are moving off of Snow Leopard. The reasons are along of the lines of
1. 90% of computers running Snow Leopard can run Lion. The only computers that cannot shipped with Core Duo 32-bit processors
2. Lion is only $30 so unless you need Rosetta (PPC) the upgrade price is trivial to the consumer for the most part
3. Lion brings a lot of new tools like iCloud for sync and improved compiler technology, Sandboxing and Core Storage.
So in summary developers all have an ideal of where they want to take their applications and when they are granted access to new tools their inspiration
is piqued and they want to move forward. As always they take what their users are on in strong consideration but let's be honest. If Lion can deliver
better performance, more stability and faster results for a developer and it only costs the end user $30 to upgrade shouldn't they be looking at this intently?
Omnigroup say's this about Lion uptake as opposed to Snow Leopard uptake.
http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/lion_adoption/
[i]the percentage of Omni customers using Lion within the first 10 days of its release is nearly the same as those who began using Leopard within the first 100 days of its release. That's quite a curve, if you ask us[/i]Flag 0 -
[quote name='Mike B' timestamp='1315703863' post='47536']
Honestly, I'm less concerned with the MAS aspect than I am with you dropping Snow Leopard support so soon after Lions release. Seems so narrow minded.
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But they aren't dropping Snow Leopard support now. They've said countless times that you can stay on 3.8.x and they will support you. I'm doing that on one of my machines. It even plays well with the 3.9 data wise. Moreover, the browser extensions (which are not a part of the MAS and can be updated independently and as often as needed by Agile to resolve bugs and security issues) now form the core of the interface. They're not perfect yet, but that are working on them constantly.Flag 0 -
[quote name='Macrina' timestamp='1315706263' post='47550']
I'm quite certain Agilebits is [b]Not[/b] dropping Snow Leopard support, as well as continuing support for 1P 3.8.x. I think it's been said several times in this thread and also in other threads.
an't imagine doing without it.
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It depends on how you define support. They claim they still support Tiger even though they haven't released an update that runs on the OS in quite a while. Providing technical support in forums or email and providing updates to make the product run smoothly on your current OS and browsers are slightly different beasts. It's not like they have a live development branch open to support Tiger users. Or even SL users at this point, as they've even said that they can't guarantee updates of the 3.8 branch from this point forward. These guys can't seem to manage to state anything as definite or concrete. Getting a straight answer is like pulling teeth. They have no business or development plan. They're just figuring it out as they go.
1Password is not an enterprise level product. It is an end-user licensed product for [i]everyone[/i]. Not everyone can afford to buy a new $2000 Mac every 3 years just to stay up with AgileBit's "development cycle." I'm a systems engineer and I only buy new hardware every 5 years.
[quote name='hmurchison' timestamp='1315706873' post='47554']
I'm finding that many developers are moving off of Snow Leopard. The reasons are along of the lines of
1. 90% of computers running Snow Leopard can run Lion. The only computers that cannot shipped with Core Duo 32-bit processors
2. Lion is only $30 so unless you need Rosetta (PPC) the upgrade price is trivial to the consumer for the most part
3. Lion brings a lot of new tools like iCloud for sync and improved compiler technology, Sandboxing and Core Storage.
So in summary developers all have an ideal of where they want to take their applications and when they are granted access to new tools their inspiration
is piqued and they want to move forward. As always they take what their users are on in strong consideration but let's be honest. If Lion can deliver
better performance, more stability and faster results for a developer and it only costs the end user $30 to upgrade shouldn't they be looking at this intently?
Omnigroup say's this about Lion uptake as opposed to Snow Leopard uptake.
[url="http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/lion_adoption/"]http://www.omnigroup.../lion_adoption/[/url]
[i]the percentage of Omni customers using Lion within the first 10 days of its release is nearly the same as those who began using Leopard within the first 100 days of its release. That's quite a curve, if you ask us[/i]
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Are you seriously citing OmniGroup as the standard for developers? OmniGroup creates overpriced products for themselves. They've never cared about customers or supporting "legacy" machines or compatibility. That's great that 90% of computers that run SL can run Lion. Now what about the 5/6 Mac OS X computers that aren't running Lion?Flag 0 -
[quote name='kallemia' timestamp='1315711495' post='47584']
But they aren't dropping Snow Leopard support now. They've said countless times that you can stay on 3.8.x and they will support you. I'm doing that on one of my machines. It even plays well with the 3.9 data wise. Moreover, the browser extensions (which are not a part of the MAS and can be updated independently and as often as needed by Agile to resolve bugs and security issues) now form the core of the interface. They're not perfect yet, but that are working on them constantly.
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Absolutely. Thanks for the assist kallemia! I couldn't have said it better myself.Flag 0 -
[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315711628' post='47586']
Absolutely. Thanks for the assist kallemia! I couldn't have said it better myself.
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And one of you have also said that while syncing currently works between 3.8 and 3.9, you can't guarantee syncing compatibility between 3.8 and future versions (including iOS updates), so take that with a grain of salt folks. Why don't you wait to talk to us until you have a solid development plan?Flag 0 -
[quote name='caesar113' timestamp='1315711816' post='47589']
And one of you have also said that while syncing currently works between 3.8 and 3.9, you can't guarantee syncing compatibility between 3.8 and future versions (including iOS updates), so take that with a grain of salt folks. Why don't you wait to talk to us until you have a solid development plan?
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As with any software, things can change in the future. We're not going to write a 5 year plan and sign it in blood. That simply goes against our core values. We try to be agile and adjust when necessary.
Hopefully when/if a 1Password for iOS update breaks compatibility with 1Password for Mac 3.8.x everyone will have migrated to 10.7 (or 10.17, who knows?).Flag 0 -
[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315711849' post='47590']
I'd be interested in where that statistic came from. We're seeing a much higher adoption rate than that from the information we're gathering.
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Do you honestly think the installed base of any OS would be higher than that 2 months after it's release? I guess this line of reasoning explains a lot. I wouldn't expect to see over 30% after a year.
http://www.lovefortech.com/2011/09/07/one-in-six-macs-is-already-running-os-x-lion/Flag 0 -
[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315685662' post='47391']
We do plan on bringing full screen mode to 3.8.x
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Why?????
Just because something is possible doesn't mean you should do it. <img src='http://forum.agilebits.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />Flag 0 -
[quote name='bwoodruff' timestamp='1315712044' post='47593']
We're not going to write a 5 year plan and sign it in blood. That simply goes against our core values. We try to be agile and adjust when necessary.
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No one is asking you to have a 5 year plan signed in blood. We're asking you to have a plan for longer than the next business day. You can't even manage to tell us when you're ending the MAS sale or whether your discontinuing the product outside of the MAS. All while you claim you're discontinuing the product outside of the MAS in the MAS product description and telling people "you better buy now because we could discontinue this pricing at anytime and then you won't get any sort of upgrade pricing due to our poor decision making." One of your "founders" claims this isn't a scare tactic. Then what is it? It's purposefully manipulating your current client base to inflate the MAS rankings to get more exposure and free advertising. Let's be honest.Flag 0 -
[quote name='caesar113' timestamp='1315712583' post='47599']
No one is asking you to have a 5 year plan signed in blood. We're asking you to have a plan for longer than the next business day.
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The plan is to be MAS only. That is the plan. Period.
The plan is to offer the discount for a limited time. The promotion does not have a set deadline. We are saying for sure though, once it is gone, its gone.Flag 0
This discussion has been closed.